2026-07-01 Depth Charge In Conversation - Ammon Hillman

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Hello everybody. Welcome. I think it was about two years ago that I first encountered Dr. after Ammon Hillman on Danny Jones's podcast, his first discussion with Ammon. And I had never encountered anything quite like that. I think few people have. Ammon's scholarship, his unique perspectival passion and concerns, his deep research into Greek polyarm pharmacy, Medea, the origins of medicine, the medusi, the incredible and provocative power of the feminine and women in the ancient world, their association with poisons, medicine, the mysteries the purging of our human layer, right? And what lies within and beyond that layer were astonishing to me and remain that way to this day. I want to be clear, I'm not here to adjudicate Ammon's work or his statements. Rather, I find him a fascinating and brilliant provocator, a rapo in the ancient Greek tradition. Um a theatrical force for insight and
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the shattering of the gatekeep narratives that have infested the academy um for so long. These narratives are inhibiting and stunting our capacity to understand nature, origin, history, archaeology, right? And many brilliant minds are working against these narratives and punching at that membrane to break through it and bring us new insights about the nature of nature our human experience, our souls, our spirits, the world of metaphysics, deep dives into linguistics and human cognition. And I am fascinated by all these people. Um, so after encountering Ammon, uh, I did a deep dive into his history and thought and wrote an essay called Ammon Hillman is unstoppable. And my intent was to acquire his attention so that I might uh, have the privilege of doing an interview with him, which I eventually did. And that first interview was meant as a kind of casual let's get to know each other discussion. and I had hoped to do much deeper dives in the near future. However, that beca it became difficult to acquire his attention after that interview and I had concerns about that. It turns out that Danny had feelings about my pres, you know, things that I said in my essay and felt that they were not, how should we put this? Celebratory. And I want to be clear about something. Danny's work is amazing. He has given me and millions of others doorways into some of the most provocative, intelligent, brilliant minds that I have ever encountered. So I love his work. Um he is a force for learning and discovery and for the the penetration of these gatekeep narratives. So I absolutely celebrate that. Um, you know, apparently what happened is that Danny had asked Ammon not to do further work with me and due to their friendship and work together, uh, Ammon went along with that. Recently, um, there's been a little conflict, a little might might be an understatement between Danny and Ammon, and that's between them. I'm not here to comment on or pursue that issue. Um, yeah, there's there's just so much here that it's hard to introduce it. Um, well, but I got in contact with Ammon again recently and we're I'm hoping to do another essay. We're we're putting together some material for that. And just to make something really clear here, Ammon is a non-ordinary phenomenon on legs. And I am fascinated with unusually minded folks and particularly people who can show us a new picture or a new image, a new dream of our origins, our natures, the origins of our civilizations and cultures, the meaning of democracy. Where did medicine come from? the role of women in our history. I mean, there's two kinds of people on Earth, women and their children, right? Um,
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and problems in the forces that produce colonization, genocide, um, ideological gatekeeping, and, uh, a variety of other issues that we face. Before I get started, I just want to be really clear about one more thing. Chewy, Ammon's assistant, is an artistic force of nature and has contributed so much to Ammon's work and his presentations and his spirit. So, I want to celebrate Chewy before we begin today. I hope you'll enjoy this talk. We had a little bit of lighting issues. Please bear with that. Hopefully in the future we can resolve that matter. It was it was just a circumstantial situation this time. Let's go. So Ammon, it's been almost two years I think since our first interview. So grateful to see you today and to have this time together. Um, I want to just take a moment to honor the ancients, the mothers, the women, the muses, the sources of medicine and wisdom just in my heart with my whole spirit remembering with reverence all those beautiful and brilliant beings. Yeah. Heck yeah. Love it. That's sexy, isn't it? Very.
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So before I mean I have a million questions I have prepared probably more than for any other interview. We'll see what we what we're able to get to. Okay. I will be brief. Right on. No, I mean be be however you want to be, brother. Um what has been on your mind and heart lately? Is there anything that you would like to speak to as we begin? Yeah. getting out the antichrist, taking the message to the people that in a world where Jesus was arrested in a public park with a naked kid, we think we should say hail Satan because we need to expose what is going on in the world. I have a real strong desire to begin to free people. You know, we've been centuries under the oppression of monism, and we weren't always that way. And there have been short periods when Renaissance has taken root, and we've almost broken through as a as a planet. And we have a chance now to do that like we've never had. and the sciences that are coming forward, the language that is coming forward, people people are catching up and this is a great opportunity to free the world. It is as if in many aspects of modernity there's a bunch of gatekeeping. There are a lot of lies about history, about archaeology, about religion. And on the other hand, from the lies, it's almost like there's a threepronged problem, right? So you have the lies, then you have the commodity culture, the commodified spirituality, wisdom, magic, and so forth. It's kind of like selling it at the marketplace. the sort of the the the dark side of what we might call woo culture, right? And then you have the spirits of origin themselves as embodied in our own souls and minds and beings and the urgencies that we bring to our birth and our incarnation. Right. And the membrane of the gatekept lies is getting thin. Yeah. And you've been punching at that membrane like somebody trying to be born, right? Like somebody trying to give birth to a new world, right? Yeah. expletive expletive yeah. Well said. Well said. I recognize that about you. Um, you know, many people, and I'm not terribly concerned with things like what do most people think, right? That's like the least common denominator of anything valuable. most of the time, right? But you you're probably the most infamous classicist that has ever had legs. Oh, that makes me feel so good. Thank you for Thank you for saying that. Um because they need it. What's I interrupted you. What is your question? All right. So,
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what is your mission? Yeah, my mission is to defend that history that you just said is being lied about or covered up or manipulated. Um because that's our reality as a people, as a planet, that's our reality. So I consider that protecting that reality of our existence as mortal humans passing in and out of being. Right? Um, I consider that as our inheritance, that reality that we are, um, that we are a people who would attempt to throw off the yoke of a false history. Um, that to me sounds most excellent. And that's the kind of world that I want to live in. And the way that we can do that now is simply simply simply through the language. You know, I woke up, Darren. I woke up in a world that had no knowledge of what it was claiming to believe, what it was claiming to entrust in, what it was claiming to live by. had no knowledge of it. I I there was a point in my life where I woke up and took a breath and said, "Oh my god, none of these people, not the religious scholars, not the evangelicals, Catholics, none of these expletive people has ever actually read the book that they are using to do the plethora of ill that they're contaminating the world with this is real old style monism and it's the power of monism that we can break now we can do it with the language all one simple question will kill them Darren what is Christing what is Christing you know I'm a little bit I'm a you know the reason I didn't give you an interview before because you requested it several times and the reason that I didn't was because Danny Chows had asked me not to because you were a little bit insulting you're a little bit insulting. And so despite the fact that you managed to capture things personally, I' I've accepted what Danny asked and did it. Right. So, it's only now that I'm bringing you
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kind of the followup to what you started, which was a hardcore analysis of what's really going on, right? Through Christing, we can destroy Christianity. How ironic. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like apparently nearly no one understood and very few people believe what you have brought to us about this and most of them are very concerned about adjudicating what they see as your claims. Right? They want to adjudicate adjudicate your claims. They want the facts and they want the data. They want the numbers. They want to do an empirical analysis of things that you have spoken. Right? Which empiricism is profound, useful and interesting except when it rises above the capacity for insight, for imagination, for understanding, for awareness. The thing is they're going to catch they're going to catch me in the truth in the reality. See, that's the game. As long as all my sources are saying exactly what I'm saying, which is shocking. What I'm claiming is shocking. And yes, it's novel. Nobody has claimed this. And oh god, we can't, you know, all the people are freaking out. He's demonpossessed, right? Oh god, the people on that side, that's how they'll solve the equation, by just throwing some demon possession there. He's demonpossessed. Great. Great. It doesn't matter. The fact is that you don't know what a Christ is. I have been there. I can show you in the data what a Christ is. And it is a dirty rotten act for which you can get crucified if you are living within the confines of the Roman Empire. So the reality that I have to give people is so strikingly liberating that it's number one that's our number one mission. Show them what a Christ is, right? When you can handle their text better than they can. Think about that for a minute. They know that. It's why a guy like Cliff Conley or Nettle, Cliff Knackle, I can't say his last name. It's why he won't come and talk on a in a large public venue with with on a show with with me about the Bible because he knows he knows he has not actually read it. None of these people have actually read the Bible from the most religious from the godamn pope all the way down through the preachers. If you're not count through the preachers and the expletive apostle goddamn prophets and all that expletive Not a single expletive one of them has read the Bible. And I'm telling you that. I'm telling you that because even the Bible scholars don't actually read Greek. Right. Yeah. The language. We've got them. We've got them. Is this checkmate? Right. It's just got to play out. But we just have to play out and bring them the antichrist. So there's a there's an implication here which is if Christing is an anointing with complex pol polypharmarmacological drugs that include you know substances from human bodies from animals from plants then what is antichristing? Yeah. What we have is a system that I've stumbled on years and years ago of doubt and antidote. And even when you say Christing, we still don't have it what it is. We still don't. We're still not there yet. If you think it's anointing, it's not. It is the application of a pharmaceutically produced substance. It is part of the industry of drugs, drug manufacturer, drug trade, drug use, prescriptions, doctors talking about the drugs you should go to the marketplace and get for whatever problem. all the way from those doctors. Christing goes all the way from those doctors to what do I Christ my wood with to preserve it from corruption. Those same industries are producing all of those drugs. Mhm. Right. Right. People don't understand antiquity. If I'm a if I'm a dude who needs to go somewhere and I've got to, you know, be on a boat, I'm gonna have nothing to do with the chemicals that were produced to waterproof that ship, right? There are industries by the time of the first century, right? There are industries there's all there's there's manufacturing of dyes in the same in the same discipline they call pharmarmacaya. The first Baptists are all what you would call witches because you can't translate this expletive Greek properly. Okay. Right. Yeah. Sorry. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to tear get the question. No, let's let's tear it up, man. I'm I'm all in. You know, it occurred to me when thinking about these matters very deeply. And you know, part of why I became interested in you is that so first of all, I want to be clear about something. I'm not trying to adjudicate what you say, right? I'm not sitting here going, "Is this the truth? Is he making this up? Has he misread the text? Is he projecting certain meanings of medical terms over the entire space of the use of this word? I'm not trying I I have very little interest in that. Right. You are a walking imposition of astonishing knowledge, history, perspective, and spirit. And that imposition cuts through things in ways that I have never encountered before. You made me see things about the ancient women, the origins of medicine, which gender is actually powerful and it ain't the boys. Just to be clear here, right? Um there are two kinds of people on earth. Women and their children, right? So like
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right your visions of the Medusa were cru just staggeringly wrecked my mind. Right. And so in a way you are a walking invocation. Right? When you speak it is rapsodic. There is incredible enthusiasm. You are furious and you are vicious with your enemies generally or those who speak against you. Right. But primarily you shone a light on aspects of our origin, history and humanity that was unlike anything I'd encountered. And there were features of that that I drank up. Um, and also that I recognized from some of my own experiences, some of which are literally too dangerous to speak of at all. Like, I just would not speak of them. Ordinary moderns would not understand. You don't care. You're like, "The moderns aren't going to get this. They're going to attack me. So what? Let's go." Right. Right. Exactly. I mean, you have to be, right? I mean, how could you be anything else? Right. Because look at what's coming at you. You know what I mean? It's it's like it's ignorance, right? And ignorance is not going to win. Beauty is going to win out. So that force that you're talking about, the muse herself is writing this goddamn program. And if if
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you don't ride that wave of knowledge, you're going to end up not knowing who the expletive you are. And that doesn't sound like it's much of a problem to anybody. When I first heard that was on the temple of Apollo, the big famous temple of Apollo Delfie, oh god, I thought that's not that important of a I don't know, just doesn't strike me. And I've lived my entire adult life learning the lesson of why that was so why that was so important. So there's a lot and one of the things Darren I want to acknowledge is that people are writing me on a daily basis telling me how things have transformed around them with their introduction to the muse with their you know the just like you're describing and to me that's the most beautiful reason that you can't stop when when they're coming at you. You can't stop. You got to push them all the way or you're not you're never going to be free, you know. And I I'm hoping that the music that is coming out now, I'm hoping that that's going to to help rip a hole in that ceiling. You know what I mean?
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I just want to circle back briefly to something. So, I wrote that essay specifically to get your attention. Right. So, that was did that was a plan, right? And you know why though? You know why it got my attention? It's because I know who I am, right? And a lot of people are saying a lot of stuff. A lot of it doesn't sound so good. You know what I mean? Some of it sounds quite honestly just nuts. And that kind of stuff I laugh at, right? And some of it's hurtful. Oh, it hurts a little bit. Stings a little bit, right? Um, and some of it's complimentary, but people are writing all that stuff out there. You nailed the the reason that your article did catch my attention was because as Ammon myself, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, that was that's why I wanted to do a second second article with you and Danny Jones said, "Please don't." And uh, I didn't. And I'm I'm wondering now, you know, I understand why he didn't want me to because you you may have nailed both of us, you know what I mean? So So, you know, but hey, hindsight, Darren, what can we do? Visions. We got to have visions. Well, when we get insight from our past and our history, we must use it medically. We must make the best and most profound medicine of it that we possibly can, right? Otherwise, we will we will fossilize inside ourselves. You know, I just want to say something about the problem with Danny briefly. So,
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first of all, I love Danny's show. He has introduced me to so many amazing minds and I just want to take a moment to sing the praises of that briefly, right? He has done astonishing work and I respect and admire that. It was never my intention to insult him. Um, mostly what I was doing was echoing what he said when he introduced his first interview with you, which is I don't know what's going on with this folks. This is beyond my pay grade, right? Is is a phrase he sometimes uses. So, just to be clear, I love his work. I think he's an amazing catalyst for learning and new ways of seeing and that's really what I'm up for. I never meant to insult him. I'm sorry if he took it that way. Um and I certainly don't need to say anything about yeah, I'll just leave that whole topic aside. So, let's see here. It looks to me like what we call civilization is falling apart. What do you think? Is this expletive going to last? Um, you know, I didn't see children being intentionally, you know, I didn't see entire countries being walled up and kids starved in genocide when I was growing up in southern Arizona in the 70s. It wasn't a part of our culture. And I mean the world culture and I don't I think u old people like us need to let people know, hey you're heading down you're going somewhere bad cuz I saw it when it was good. I saw it when it was good and some people say it wasn't even good then but it was it was non genocidal. Are we at the end? Oh god. I can see it getting worse fast. Can't you? Yeah. Me too. the absolute atrocities that have taken place in Palestine and Gaza for which a specific nation is primarily responsible. And I want to be clear about something here. If I say that Israel is committing genocide in Palestine, I do not mean Jewish persons are bad people or that they're doing the genocide. Israel is a construct, it seems to me, and the construct is guilty of the genocide. Many, many of the people would never agree with something like that. Yeah. I think it's actually I think right now what you've touched on is the reason that this moment in history is so beautiful because this is an issue of genocide. It is. It it doesn't matter what ethnicity you are, what race you are, it doesn't matter what gender you are. Doesn't matter. Genocide is genocide. And anybody can stand back and say, "Fuck all this propaganda. expletive all the religion. We don't care. It's genocide that must be stopped. The people who are doing it must be held responsible. We have to have justice." I think that I think that this is a chance for us to have justice. And it doesn't matter what race you are. Plenty of Jewish people are just as horrified as I am. Right? Sitting here can sit here with me and say that is awful. It must be stopped. This is awful. Killing children, starving crimes against children. But you know, Darren, we have a president. We have a president who's a child rapist, right? that the government is fighting to get the files away from with all of his videos, with all the expletive he was doing to children, right? And people are paying to support. How the hell can people continue to support a child rapist everywhere that guy goes, people should be looking away from him like Jesus, right? What kind of I think this is a world that's overcome with some kind of sludge, some kind of anti- justice sludge. And I don't care what your race is. This is the perfect time for people to stand up and say, "Fuck everything else." Okay? Okay. If your god is genocidal, expletive that god. Right? If your beliefs are genocidal, expletive those beliefs. If you're if you're if you're some kind of expletive skin head and you got expletive genocide, you love genocide, you expletive bag. No, you're not part you're not part of the humanity that wants to protect those children. And it's it's it's this is the perfect time in history for us to stand up and to and to, you know, speak freely. I think about that. Me, too. There's a complex array of systems, we might call them processes that are dead inside that aren't human that capture our people and sort of what deploy them in service of their mutation, their propagation, their dominance, right? So they kind of just in from one perspective, right? suck up human populations and then deploy them as agents of obl of like obliteration of everything that's alive. What I call omnicide, right? Because another thing we don't realize is that the horrors that the humans commit in war don't just land on the humans. They land on the living places, on the history and future of life on earth, on the soul of all beings of our world, on the spirit of the mothers. Nice. These are abject violations and they must never be overlooked or apologized for somehow or justified. There is no justification for atrocity. None ever, you know. Yeah. And you know, we had that spirit in our past. We've had it little sparks of that throughout history. And humans can somehow get to the point that they're like, "No, this is bad and we'll choose justice." and rightness over the over the tyranny of greed and you know hatred.
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Yeah, there was a sex scandal in Athens that resulted in a switch in power and toward democratic governance and in that it was a it was a contest for a boy lover, right? that was causing the tyrant a lot of you know
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a lot of problems and this ultimately the people saw what happened and they saw the what they called hubris which you and I translate in English when they translate this in these contexts they translate it as sexual abuse sexual abuse so even the earliest form of democracy was fighting against a powerful wealthy insurgency that was taking power and wealth from the people, power and resources from the people and it's again it's the same modest entity that just takes over a person. It's why they can interview people about Israel and they can talk about it. I can talk about Israel because I live there. Um, and I feel I have a stake in its history and I can tell you for a fact the things that they say in Israel now, um, that get through the media, those things are amazing. Things that I would never have dreamt when I was a child that another human being would say, especially a human being whose grandparents had the same spirit applied to them. It was to me it's the ultimate hypocrisy and it it really does I mean you can't tolerate this. You can't tolerate this. If just like Nazism if if America had allowed Hitler to take over the entire all of Europe. Um we knew that it's going to spread like a disease. It's going to spread. Um and we don't know that now. We're watching it happen now and at at it, you know, on a grand level and we're not doing anything about it. We're just allowing our tax dollars to go to fund what is probably ultimately going to be the worst genocide in human history because this is not going to end there. It's not going to end. Now that the genie is out of the bottle, um, it's going to spread. You know, I feel very deeply the plight of the world and the living places and the animals and the plants and all the living beings here. I am not merely human. None of us are. Our lives float on the lives of myriads of other beings. Right? And I think also there's a thread in your work that appeals to my own awareness and understanding and orbits ideas like burning off our mortality, right? Like as if we acquire, you know, when I listen to Maria Maragu, the Greek mystigog who leads people in Greece, right? brilliant scholar in her own right talk about the purpose of the mystery writes right it's very similar to this burning off of the humanity or the mortality right the fear of death you're you're you're ending the fear of death yeah yes and she speaks of the awareness that gaining a human body is like gaining a shell hell like this whole this word I'm not a Greek scholar so but like the word ceremony and cemetery sema right there's this yeah and also ceramic right like this is a kind of a trap for our souls our souls can be understood in a way to die into our humanity from some perspectives and thus must be resurrected within that humanity ity. What do you make of this? I think it's a common, you know, people talk about reincarnation and Pythagoras that becomes a popular topic and all that kind of stuff, but when you just when you're just saturating yourself with Greek thought, ancient Greek thought, it doesn't. The whole concept of the humanity is the vessel. Um, that's all over the place. Um, humanity as the instrument is even deeper. I don't think we see it. If you could see what I've seen, you wouldn't you wouldn't have these questions is what I'm going to keep telling people if you could just see it stuff, right? Um, the use of the human body like nobody knows. You can ask any classes today whether they're involved with the mystery trying to examine on an archaeological basis on a literary basis doesn't matter. None of them are going to know this that the human body is that place, that temple, that sacred inner chamber place within that produces the concoction, the water of life that that individual body is a producer. That's the thing that you see on the pharmacological side that the scholars have so ignored. And it's that for it's for that reason that we don't know what a Christ is because all of this terminology is coming out of the same industry. It's all of the same bronze age mian drug manufacturing. That's everything, right? Shut up with the calling it witches and expletive Stop that. That's that's our stupid modest view. Stop.
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Right. Um so yeah, that mystery is the oh the container. And not only that, but there's a this is one that usually throws people. There's a sexual element of both Christing and the mystery that people really haven't figured out because it's been cut out. So modern scholars will tend to talk about the mystery as if it's totally asexual and we know that that's not the case. I can show you the drugs that they're using that they're Christing throughout the PGM. It's a very much sexual mystery is very much inter cannot be separated. Just like you can't take the drugs out of it, you can't take the music sex, music and the drugs cannot be taken out of the mystery. You cannot have Jesus without the sex, the music, and the drugs. When he's taken his kids out to the park at 4:00 a.m., what are they doing? They're singing. They're singing the very same hymns that they're using in the mystery operations. Why are they going out so late? Because this is a dawnbringer's procedure. This is a dawnbringer's
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procedure. All of this stuff is in the text. All of it's part of the mystery, but we don't put it together. We don't Nobody studies the drugs anymore. Nobody studies this stuff. So, I'm not sure study itself would be sufficient. Yeah. You experienced a expletive revelation, a cascade of revelations. And that's not merely an academic experience. And this is part of why ordinary academics and so forth, they're not going to understand you, right? They're not they don't have that revelation. They don't have that. You, as far as I can tell, just from watching how you are in your mind and in your concerns, it's very clear you've been taken outside the expletive cage. You have seen things and been shown things that scholars are not going to understand. Ammon. Okay. Having Let me say though, Darren. Um, let me use Jeffrey Henderson who's the lobe classical libraries editor. Um, you know, big Harvard series. Jeffrey Henderson met me at a conference, came up to me after my paper and said, "Amazingly grand job." Um, we talked and later through dinner, through faculty, stuff like that. Um,
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Jeffrey Henderson would not want to affirm what I was saying on Danny Jones that Jesus was involved with blowjobbery with the ice. You know, it's what they call it in ancient Greek. So he didn't want to step forward. Although he's published on it in his immaculate muse showing that it is exactly what I am saying. I could have used him as a source. He still doesn't want to come forward. Um despite the fact that he knows that all I'm doing is bringing the Greek sources, right? So let me say it this way. Let me re reframe what you asked by beginning my answer this way. Look, academia respects the expletive out of me because I just bring them sources that none of them read, right? And bam, I hit them in places where it doesn't feel good. I'm hitting them in Christianity. Nobody in classics wants to get drawn. Do you know the politics at universities? Nobody wants to get drawn into that. Absolutely nobody. But if they go into public like uh Bartman did and then try to translate publicly and goof up and look bad, right? Academia knows damn well I am not bullshitting. Now what you are asking is is there a level you know a level beyond a le a level of native you know have you gone native right some people would say yeah some people would say yeah I'm personally nothing's admissible right so
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Um, you know, I've listened to many unique minds who have traversed academic paths and those of them who did not succumb to the inveterate infection with gatekept in like an academic industry that is primarily seeking cash from donors and silences controversial voices and lies about archaeology, history, language itself, philosophy. Um, the present situation in
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the academy, even though I'm far outside it, is monumentally toxic. the scions of power in the academy, they're not interested in education or discovery or insight. They're interested in institutionalizing a series of narratives. And anyone who comes against those narratives mostly gets ejected, right? And you're for your audience, you're not just whistling Dixie. Darren not just whistling Dixie because you can prove this by just going yourself to a classics conference. They've got them all over the world and you can go to say for example a European classics conference and just pick there will be 100 papers delivered by 100 different professors. You go in there and you just pick five or six of them. spend the day. Spend the day in some panels. And my god, man. Even the classicist will tell you, "Oh yeah, sh it's true. It's true what he's saying. It's crap. The level of performance is crap." Why is it? It's not at the level of the art or the skill with the philology. It's the fact that they are passing around canned ideology that they want you to, you know, hey, you do this too. if you don't do this, maybe your position is going to be, you know, you're not in the group and you, oh, well, I so it's compared to the conferences I went to in molecular biology, it's a complete and total difference, you know. Um it's it's people can afford to be lazy when all they have to do is pass around a pre-anned notion. They don't they really don't have to do the research and people get comfortable and professors of classics get comfortable. Jeffrey Henderson is comfortable. He doesn't want to come out. He knows I'm right. He's sitting there probably just a little bit tickled, right? Knowing that I'm probing for the expletive of Jesus. Who's given Jesus a expletive Where is it? What text? What's he doing with his ejaculate? He's he's he's giving it to the kids. What? Right. Um Jeffrey Henderson cannot come out. He's got to sit there and say, "I don't know." Even though he published that in the book years ago, he published that. He published what that act is. aischrourgia, what is it? He published it. So it and it's because it's in Aristophanes, you know, it's straight up. So there are
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probably unknown to you even there are traditions of this kind of activity that it's this is not you know the kind of thing that I want to talk deeply about. It's it's too controversial even for me. But there are traditions of this kind of activity that go back extremely far into human history in tribes in Africa, for example, that we have no real written record of. And I think very few people realize that
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among the modest and the colonizing peoples, women and children are expletive property. Right. Right. I had someone say this to me here in here in San Francisco. I went to visit we were going to do some singing at a rabbi's house. Young rabbi, I won't name him. And I knew a little bit about Hebrew. I knew some kind of surprising things about Hebrew. And so I I made a few comments and the women were like, "How did you know? How could you possibly know that about Hebrew?" Right? And so because the women were a little bit impressed and I wasn't trying to be seductive or anything. I was just having fun with with people, right? He took me aside. This is in, you know, 2023. And he said to me, and I and I don't want to cast aspersions on any people. I'm just talking about an experience I had. To be clear, I rever all beings, right? He said, "You realize, don't you, that those women are my property, just like if they were a table or a cow." Oh god, now he's a douche. Now he's a douche. Can you imagine? Modernity. How can you day? How could you thank something like that? How could you think you could own a person or that you could somehow have mastery? Is this just something that the human soul has to fight itself out of all the time? Well, again, who the expletive marries somebody like that anyway? I mean, Jesus, don't you? Um, again though, there's there's a bunch of things that I think moderns very rarely realize. and whether or not the things that you say what whatever degree of truth or falsehood may acrue to the things that you say right I cannot adjudicate that it's not my job but whatever that degree is it's absolutely clear that among the colonizing peoples and the monists who are very these two things are very tightly linked right monism and colonization right you have Notice that that's that's blatantly obvious every right. Yeah. Please notice that genocide, the abuse of children, the subjugation of women, the capture of the educational systems, the canned narratives that must not be objected to or defied under pain of destruction. Right? You know, it's it's obvious,
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perhaps it's a little unfortunate, but it's also obvious why men like those you mentioned are not going to come against the narrative structures in which they are bound. For one thing, their careers will be destroyed. And it doesn't end there. Um, for people who aggressively attack the dominant narratives, bad things happen, right? Like to their families, to their to their name, to their history, to their vocations, right? So that's super dangerous. We can hope that some people might be courageous enough to come forward and say like this is a bunch of lying, right? But if it's going to mean that you're destroyed, you got to have a lot of kahones there to to try to do something like that. Imagine you're born into that world though that you just described. That's a world of corruption. It's a world of darkness and it's a world where little there's no respect for like the basic human decency. You wouldn't shoot a little kid in the face. You wouldn't shoot anybody in the face. But you especially wouldn't shoot a little kid because that's not right. Um children are that has to be dealt with. If you as a human being can live with that and be afraid, you know, cuz most people are afraid of the consequences, right, of standing up resistance when you stand up against the Nazis. You're going to they're going to pull you in a back alley and shoot you sometime, right? They're eventually going to catch up with you. But the fact is resistance for justice is so basic to to our humanity that who would want to live in a world where they're not going to shoot you in the face? Who would want do you really want to live in compliance with child murderers and child rapists? Is that even being alive? That's not even being alive. That's like a kind of false life. Yeah. And you know, we
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have many many new forms of genocide in our time, right? The corporations poison the food, right? The the give us all cancer, the the pharmarmacological industry, big pharma and stuff. This is not medicine. This is something else where it isn't medicine. Sometimes it is. There are places where it is. So, like there's there's the slow pervasive genocide of poisoning the environment and the minds and hearts of the people. Um, failing to educate them adequately, not teaching them the arts of rhetoric or ancient languages or what it means to be human or how to how to forge a mind that is brilliant and insightful and playful and creative together. All of these things. And then you have the abject physical genocide that we see when you know nations go batshit out of whatever resemblance of a mind they might have otherwise had. What do you think about the positive though? Look at what it does. It shows us who God is. I mean we've been living 2,000 years under this expletive God, right? He's been there. He may not have had power for four or five centuries, but we've been living under his influence for 2,000 years, right? And I wouldn't put it beyond that because

Philo Judeas (Philo of Alexandria), the late 1st century BCE (writing in 20–50 CE), Judean guy in Alexandria, he is explaining the book of Genesis based on the Greek. He's quoting it in Greek and then he explains very carefully what each of the Greek terms means - not as a translation - but as the original.

We cannot live in a world where the lies like that, like "oh Hebrew is a sacred language there was this kingdom of David", there was no kingdom of David! first of all David, David was genocidal in your... But there was no kingdom! This does not exist. Archaeologically, it does not exist. I can promise you there's nothing that's been found. None of this. There's everything, is Disneyland that you're looking at.

And we have a sea of evidence. We have a sea of evidence in beautiful ancient Greek. And people have lied to you. People have lied to you. Not all languages created equal. Right? Societies do not develop based upon their natural resources. They develop based upon their language. Mhm. And the level of advancement that they make toward doing things like making hospitals, efficient hospitals, that between that and blowing those hospitals up, there's some sort of balance. There's some sort of progress progression over time. And you have been lied to by so many people. It just, you know, I can't emphasize enough when I realized I've been reading Greek for like 20 years, right? And I realized, oh my god, the people on the religious side, they don't even know their own sources. They don't even know their own text. They say Jesus, Jesus, but they don't even know. You know how shocking it is for them to find out he was arrested with a naked kid? That's shocking to them. They don't even believe that at first, right? When you tell them that. Um I I just I'm sorry. I'm on a tear again, but this is you're letting it out by talking about the you know, it's the crimes against the children that cause the democracy to wake up and to say expletive you. expletive you to all these rich bastards who want to take everything and murder us all. expletive you. It's terrifying to imagine that what goes on in our country in the United States could even be compared to democracy. This is an active agentic kleptocracy. This is stealing from the history and future of our people and our world under the guise of democracy which it does not even resemble. This is the thing that I wish it could be possible for the common people to understand. This is not a democracy. This is not a republic. This is a cluster fork of competing diseases masquerading as noble, humane, intelligent, or powerful. Yeah. I I got news for you. You're being farmed and they're going to rape your ass one of these days. You know what I mean? No, we're just being fracked, right? Our attention is being fracked. Our privacy is being fracked. Our identities are being fracked. Our creativity is being fracked. Right. What what what the what the corporations would do to the water table, they will do to your family. Right. Exactly. These are not your friends. No. No. No. And they're not human. These were Yeah. These are not human structures. These are the structures of the war machine, the genocides and the money grubbing like the commodity chasing aspect of what happens to humans when our humanity departs and cash money fills the vacuum in our souls. Greed stains your soul. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Which they're supposed to know, right? What the expletive You monism loving sons of expletive you're supposed to know the whole greed thing. Jesus was quoting a very popular and wellestablished philosophical sentiment that greed is directly I mean and I I can't tell you how many authors I've read who said this. Greed is directly antagonistic to democracy. It's directly antagonistic to it. So, it's not that you can you you can't afford as a c as a democracy to look by while greed simmers. You you have to cut it out right away. Right away or it'll take over your democracy. And look, now we have the literally the embodiment of greed. I mean, this is one thing that, you know, this is why prophets are prophets because they show you the reality that's slapping you in the face, but you can't see it because you're high on some crack from what your culture is giving you, you know? You know, and we're in a place to look at that mirror now. This is this is what gets me so excited. People can see who God is. This God that we've lived with for 2,000 years, he's expletive genocidal. He's genocidal. This is terrible. So I I I did not It actually never occurred to me. One time there's some exceptions, but recently is it is it Gad Bara? I can't remember precisely his name. Yeah. But he talk he talks about the history of yaoism and stuff like this very compellingly. Right. And it never occurred to me that Yahweh wasn't God, right? That Yahweh was not the God of of God, you know, like the God, the modest God. Yahweh was Yao and Yah and Yahoo and Yahweh. This is a entity. It's not God, right? And it took over. This entity took over around 3rd century BC is when you start seeing this awful horrific genocidal son of a expletive appearing on the scene and all of a sudden people those what I don't get Darren is the reality is way more interesting. If I were Jewish I would be glad to know that my ancestors were not what those rabbis said they were. My ancestors came from Cree and Sparta and they migrated around the Mediterranean, and they wanted the education. And do you know what language my ancestors, if I'm Jewish, do you know what language they spoke? It was not Hebrew because Hebrew did not exist. It was Greek. Yeah, it was Greek. There is so much soul that the Jewish people could reap themselves from what is in those Greek texts and they ignore it. The the rabbis of course will tell you no no no that's not what happened. What happened is there's this language Hebrew and it's our people who were delivered from the blah blah and the hoo-ha and none of that expletive is accurate historically. So it's almost like the rabbis, priests, and preachers will deprive their own people of their reality in order to maintain control in the process of consuming, in the process of eating up the world, right? You've got to maintain something up here that will cause the people to imagine trying to convince. I lived in Israel. I can tell you there were people I knew who were there that I cannot imagine how enraged they are at what the Israeli government and the Israeli military is doing. However, however, I know that a lot of the people that I knew there are the ones shooting kids in the face. I know that, too. And it makes me expletive sick. It makes me sick that that's there. And how do you get that? You start with Hebrew. You plug in a falsity. This land was promised to you because you're special. Now pick up a gun and blow that kid's brains out, right? Oh god. What is more Nazi than modernday Israel? Nothing. They they outdid the they outworked the Nazis. I can say that because it's your show and I can't get in trouble.

Yeah, I guess I'll have to take the heat for that. But no, I mean All right. So, there's a couple of topics I want to touch on, and one of them is I've heard you speak very compellingly about the actual necessities of a democracy, that you don't elect wealthy people, that they not be married, that they not have duplicitous dealings with war, corporations, etc. Tell us a little bit, give us a glimpse of what an actual democracy requires. Yeah, you require radical representation. First of all, radical representation and no districts. No, it's a one to one vote. This is straight up justice, right? Each juror votes, they get one vote per person. Count the whole thing up. Simple majority wins, right? That's what you need in your system. But you got no breaks for the greed. And so like when Solon who himself was extremely wealthy when he is helping to set up the the democracy he's the first thing he's doing is introducing financial reforms. You can't a congressman or congressman or congresswoman should not be able to receive more than an average year's wage for their
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job. They cannot they cannot have any other income from the outside because that will that will corrupt the system. It'll it'll it'll cause their decision to change from what they're deem their neighborhood is saying to whoever is giving them the money. It's the same thing we have now and people yell about it. The problem is we're not we're not putting what you have to do is you have to put people in jail and there's no crime system now that we there's no legal system or laws set of laws that govern all of these donations to these people. Every donation to you as a congressman should be considered bribery. Yeah, it is bribery. Yeah, it's hard to understand it any other way. Right. So, right,
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as I understood it, um, perhaps rather clumsily, there's a there's a great necessity for the separation of commerce and government. And you need the people in the roles in the government to be free of conflict of interest in a way that goes far beyond what we would usually imagine like in a very significant way. Even to be married could be a problem, right? Possibly if you wanted to go that far. Possibly. in trying to ensure the integrity. All you're doing is you're saying this representative will will represent, right? That's that's all you're doing
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is you it's very simple, right? And you could clean out Congress. You could clean out the Senate and the House. You could take them just say everybody's fired and tomorrow we're going to hire janitors from the schools in every district. Those janitors are going to come up, you know, they're going to get a year's salary for a year and what they have to do is they have to keep their nose clean, right? If you see them take a nickel, if they take a nickel, um, it doesn't matter. They're out. They're they go to prison and then the next person comes up. It's more like a lottery system, right, than it is or even it somewhat resembles a sorties in a way. Yeah. And it's more like your duty when you are serving as a senator or congressman. It's your duty as a citizen of the United States not to take money, not to be corrupt, but to follow the law and to uphold the Constitution. That whole idea of a Constitution that's all Greek, right? We don't realize it, but our entire system is based upon this language that we no longer read anymore. We no longer read. It's not a part of our database. Well, I mean, let's let's not have too high an expectation. Uh vast, you know, I I I had the privilege of being asked to teach junior college in the late 80s, teaching an English class, right? These are mostly white, upper middle class kids from mainly good homes. They had B toB plus averages coming out of high school. Out of 90 kids in three classes, four of them could produce a sentence in English. Two of them could compose a paragraph. That was in 1987. Ammon, what do you suppose the situation is now? You're saying like they're not reading the Greek. No, they're not reading the English, right? The they cannot. Now, I'm not saying look, humans are a topology and there are mountains and valleys, but the valleys are deep and broad and the mountains are rare, right? So, there were a few students who could produce a sentence in English and writing. But what the hell happened to the educational systems in our nation to produce a genocide of human creativity and intelligence and inspiration, the capacity just to speak eloquently in your own language or to write a sentence. Yeah. So you're like, "Well, they're not reading Greek. You're asking worms to fly, right?" you you know that's the one thing that I have really learned from YouTube. It's the one thing that I have really learned that for every person out there who's like you're describing and they are out there there's another one who's nerd as expletive Oh yeah. And those are the people I guess that's my lesson. Those are the people that you're talking to, right? You're trying to free those minds that are rational and can think and put together the evidence and say, "Oh, wait a minute. Maybe I can question this." You're not trying to approach the ones who are very mercenarily holding on to their monism and, you know, it makes them very comfortable, you know. And that's not to say that people who are religious or are all dumb. It's not. Or un or uneducated. No. No, it's not. That's that's not what I mean. Um, it seems stupid though for Christians to embrace something that logically leads to genocide. It seems just like, you know, this age should be the end of Christianity and Judaism, right? Not not Jews and Christians. It should be the end of Judaism and Christianity because people should see what ultimately Christianity helps to produce through Judaism. There was a woman standing there was a journalist standing with a woman in front of the mosque over where the supposed temple was of Solomon that was never built and we have no record of. and she's a Christian from the States and she is saying, "Oh God, it's time for Jesus to return." And the way that he will return is when this temple is rebuilt. We so we have to get rid of all the Palestinians out of Jerusalem. We have to get rid of them and then rebuild the temple. And she says, "Only then will Jesus come back." And what she's not telling the journalists is that when Jesus returns, he's going to kill all those Jews. So wait a minute, you have one genocidal system working within another genocidal system, namely Judaism, right? You have the Judaism there that what what are they thinking? Going to build the third temple and take all the land that was promised us because we're special and expletive everybody else. And then you have the Christianity working on the back of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to kill everybody, take all the land, and when they do that, Jesus is going to come and murder them all, right? No. I mean, this, you know, you'd have a hard time producing a situation like this as a bad science fiction story. Yeah. Like, this is worse than bad science fiction. Much worse. And actually, actively lethal, right? Okay. I want to I
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want to speak to something we talked about in our casual discussion the other day and I you know I think you have a little bit of responsibility for for the problem some of the problem that you're facing here because you you will often play three sides against the middle and then stand right in the middle. Right. So
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that's not gonna go well. Right. That is not gonna go well. Yeah. It's not going to go well and people are going to judge you and they're going to attack you and they're going to, you know, do all kinds of things. But I want to ask you and I want you to speak clearly about your ethics. What does integrity mean to you? I have a couple of other questions, but let's start with that. What is integrity as a human being, as a father, as a teacher, and as a scholar? Yeah. Um, there are people out there who hear what I say and it affects them. It affects the way they look at the world. It affects the way they look at their religion and it causes them to question. Integrity is all about giving those people exact realities, showing them the text, the evidence. Look, this is this is there. My integrity is all wrapped up in giving people the real evidence and not wavering, not making anything up. The day that I make something up, the day I'm done. Well, and I should be done because that's what a teacher is supposed to do. A teacher is there to do no harm, first of all, right? Just like a doctor, you're there to do no harm. And second of all, you are there to support the growth, the nourishment of that soul, that mind. And you cannot do things that will stunt that growth, damage that growth. And teachers who do take that dark path, those are not they they really weren't they're not keeping their oath. They're not they're not keeping the spirit of what a teacher is. So, um, integrity to me is accuracy. I hate to make it that simple, but I must be accurate 100% of the time. So, if I, if I'm seeing something in my research and I want to jump to a conclusion because it fits the puzzle in, if I don't have enough evidence up here, I say, "Look, look, look. You can't do that until you can show people." This is the straight up because everybody has to know that I am not here to make money. I am not here to influence you. I'm not here to change your life or to bring you some sort of, you know, goodie in a package of some sort, right? I'm not here to give you a religion either. And I'm not here to satisfy you sexually, right? I'm not here for that. I'm here to give you the evidence. You make the expletive decisions. Jesus was arrested in a public park with a naked kid. He was crucified with other people who were child sex traffickers. You make the decision, right? And I have a great faith in humanity, humanity's underlying drive for justice that, you know, this crap won't stand. What are your sexual ethics? Say something to this. So, I want to actually let me let me reframe this a little bit. Do you support the sexualization of children? Absolutely. 100% not. Um the And what about teenagers? The people who are in people who are in a state of vulnerability need protection. This is why the virgin on the hill is our great symbol in democracy because we protect the vulnerable. Yes. Right. What do those children need? You're talking about their sexualization. What do those children need? They need nourishment. They need growth. They need advancement. They need development. Right? They don't need to be harmed. They don't need hubris. So what are my sexual ethics? Those are my sexual ethics. Um, there's no word for homosexuality in ancient Greek. We have a gorgeous language that has capacity that far outshines any of her contemporaries. And and yet she has no word for homosexual, right? Um, is that true, Ammon? Very true. Very true. There's no word. Um, Kenneth Delver wrote a whole book about it. Uh, Greek homosexuality it's called. And in the introduction, the very opening, he has to tell you, you know, there is no word homosexual in ancient Greek, right? This there's there's something interesting about this that I want to touch on briefly, which is
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the humans generally invent and I'll speak just about English. How you how you doing? You doing okay? What's going on? No, I need to get a drink real quick. Hold on. Question. Give me one second here. Yeah, take a break. Take five. Thanks.
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I walk. Okay. You were talking about sex, you pervert. What' you want to know? Yeah. Um, a lot of things. So, you know, many
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of of the people who have critical views against you. And let's be clear, you're about the most provocative human being walking on legs these days are one of them. Okay. What would they want to hear? Let's get So, so first of all, there's there's a problem here that I want to clear up. Go ahead. About you. Yes. Because in private conversation, you've made very clear what your ethics are and how crucial it is for you to maintain an a stance of integrity and ethical awareness around sexuality around protecting young people, around protecting teenagers. The problem is that you talk about what was going on in ancient Greece and you know other cultures at these times and people's then transfer that and suppose that you're saying you approve of this. You see the problem? Yes. These are the same people who say I must be using all sorts of hallucinogens and I must have children in my basement somewhere. It's the same people. Yeah. I need to talk about the things that happened in antiquity so that you can have the reality that you have. I can't change them. Right? If Jesus was arrested with a naked kid, I have to tell people that I I can't change it. I can't I can't edit out or censor my sources that my integrity is to those sources. And you can't alter the evidence, the data. And it turns out there's a lot of stuff about kids and about inappropriate sexual relations and famous people who did stuff that you think, "Oh god, how could you possibly do that?" So when I bring it up, it attracts there's a a class of perverts who I really think they are perverted who will say oh well because you're talking about this it means you must be this because I don't have any way to counter what you're saying so I'm going to turn you into the evil that you're talking about. You know that's just the way it's the way it is. You know, the stupid thing for them is all it does is promote discussion. All people are going to want to hear about then is, well, wait, it there was a naked kid with Jesus. So, am I doing that? Absolutely. Right. I found out early on that's the way this game is played. This whole Gadfly thing, it's the way it's played. you know, feed them, feed them exactly what they're looking for and slap them in the face with the dildo of reality. They're going to come back, right? But some of them will be freed. Some of them will be freed and their rational minds will say, "Wait a minute. This guy has been he's a 37year classicist. He's redoing his classical philology. What?" And he's saying there's a problem with your translation. very simple things like what is a Christ? Anybody can understand what a Christ is, right? That's why we have them on the run. Nobody was able to put up a resistance against me. Nobody. Not the biblical scholars, not the classicists, nobody. So, as soon as I had a professor tell me that once. He said, "It's going to take 10 years for them to accept this, for classics to accept what you're saying, to look over the evidence and to say, "Yeah, he's not he's not just blowing smoke." So, I'm waiting. In our discussions, you made it clear to me that in your heart and your spirit and your work, there must be sexual integrity. the protection of the students, the protection of the youth, no sexual congress between teachers and students, all of these things. And I think no one has made this clear and this is something that I want to clarify. Your ethics are very different from what people suppose based on your presentations. Correct. Correct. And people will say things about sexual harassment. Um and we went to court and fought that for three years only to have St. Mary's have to come out and admit that there was never a sexual harassment case brought against me. So for me it was vindication, but it was very personal. But I that we got that far in the case was vindication. Um, but people are going to, you'll notice that a lot of people have put out that accusation that I'm some sort of sexual deviant, right? What happens is when you come out with a factoid like Jesus was involved in Christing which was part of a sex act and that he was doing it on little kids. When you come out with something like that the resistance is going to be fierce because you're you're undercutting everything that the person that the person has come to believe in everything. So, um, I learned right away that, you know, you just you deal with it. You know, if you're innocent, look, I'm sitting here. If I am an innocent human being, um, I have nothing to fear. All right? You can bring accusations against me. Go ahead. Go ahead. Say what you want. Put it slander all you want out there. Um, I'm innocent and nobody can. There's no, you're not going to find a victim who comes forward and says, "Oh, God, the things that he did to me, right? You're not going to find that. You're going to find students." If you start looking through students and I've been waiting for the day when somebody does this, for example, if I go on tour in July and August with Junius and somebody there gets a little bit trigger happy, right? and I end up going the way of that we all end up going. People should go back and talk to my students. People should talk to my students and find out for yourselves and you're going to be shocked. I got hired based upon student recommendations. That never happens. That never happens. You don't hire somebody based on what his students are saying. They have to have re a research component. They have to have a history of teaching. You look over their history of teaching, what they can teach and what you expect they're going to teach for your department, right? You don't look at recommendations are not they're just not valuable. But in my case, they were they were the reason that I got hired because of what the students were saying. So I've always drawn a line whether I've taught high school girls. I taught an all girl high school, right? Oh, that should set your dirty little minds going, right? Um but the same standard that I use there, I apply to college students and everything because you can't your student teacher relationship is sacred and you you don't want to damage the potential for growth in the person that you're working with. So you don't you don't mess you don't get into a relationship with you just don't it's just it's not going to work right you're going to stop being a teacher to that person and become a lover and you can't do that it just doesn't you lose the edge I'm telling you teachers who professors who do that and I knew one I knew a professor who married his student a very a very talented incredibly talented human being who made history in what he studied and he married one of his students and you can't do that. You you you basically sacrifice that student and a good teacher is not willing to do that. So because students are supposed to stand on your shoulders. They're supposed to push the field even further forward. Right? So you know it's the way it's supposed to be. Right on. I wanted to clarify this because in private conversation with you, we discuss similar issues and this is crucial for people to understand. integrity, virtue, honesty. These are values that however you may incomp however you may fail to be perfect in them, you have a powerful ethical imperative that you must not deviate from. And there's another aspect of this which is
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I'll see if I can find this here. So, I just wanted to clarify these matters and and ask you specifically where you stand on them. Oh, yeah. I know what it is. You have lived in relative poverty for nearly your entire adult life. You do not accept donations. You do not make large sums of money. I you know I tried to buy you a microphone right and you were like no man we can't do that like you your integrity around anything that could corrupt your path is quite profound it may not be perfect none of us are perfect but this is something that is crucially important to you and I think it's it's very I think it's an imperative that we clarify this publicly so that's something that that I want I want everyone to understand about you, right? You lived in You cleaned the toilets at St. Mary's. Yeah. Right. To try to make a little extra money. What were they paying you? 15 grand a year or something like this. Right. How can you make How can you You can't have a payment for an apartment and a, you know, pay your groceries on on that kind of You're raising children. Yeah. They they knew that, right? So, and I'm raising two children by myself. So, it's you know, I didn't have much of a much of a choice. I did what I could and I took whatever jobs that I was, you know, I delivered pizza here in in Taos. Um I lived in a cabin up in the mountains that had no plumbing. Um it shouldn't have been rented, right? But I had that's all I could get and it had no, you know, it was basically charity from a friend letting me letting me stay there. And I bathed and took my kids to a you know what they call it. It's not a YMCA, a youth center. Uhhuh. Youth center. So we could all get showers. You know where the local people who had no money could come and pay two bucks for a shower. You know what I mean? Because we had no plumbing. I used to take a expletive in a toilet that I had to carry out to the hippie expletive stack, you know, and and dump it out there and go into town and get fresh water. Right. It's I've had my fair share of poverty and I can tell you I can tell you for a fact it is important. It is important that you struggle. I don't know why. I don't know like what the big picture is. And maybe Kirk Hammet was right when he said that struggle is an absolute necessity in the art and that's why we get crappy pop music is because there is no struggle. And I look at my life with this the constant struggle against poverty as a lesson as a as an education. And I've seen people who who have the look of wealth and I've rubbed shoulders with people who are offended at my poverty and I think I understand most of us are there right you think about it you say oh you're you're poor and I am but most of us are right so yeah I think this is part of the human experience and we should have a giant group of impoverished people rise up against the expletive and say look we at least we have justice expletive right and you know take it back I'll I'll teach them all Greek I'll give them all Greek you know yeah I just I just want to highlight that in my attempt to understand your path and your integrity there's strong evidence for your integrity around issues of sexual ethics, the ethics of teaching. I know that you get how should we put this? You get images, people email you things that are sexual. People are dirty. People are dirty. Godamn it. When When I That's something YouTube has taught me. People will send you pictures of intimate stuff that I didn't request that. I'm sorry if if you must take Mojo, please go take it somewhere else because I didn't ask for it. But at the same time, I realize they're people are just trying to be romantic in their own way. You know what I mean? And I don't I don't I don't harbor any grudges to people who do stuff like that, right? Um but you also don't seek it and you don't celebrate it. No, no, no. I don't
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you know, people are going to be people and people are different and they do different kind of things and you can't be an expletive and just say, "Well, okay, you sent me some bikini pics. Please don't do that." You know, just Okay, come on. Who gives a expletive Right. Um it's the people who send stuff like I've noticed. I mean it's a learning experience for me because there is a class of a group of people. It's not a class. It's like a cultural group of people who throw this intense desire at you, right? This intense erotic desire that turns very quickly into I want to kill you, right? It's the I I wanna I want to expletive you or I want to kill you people, right? And you can see those. It's like a It's like a psychology among humans. And I can tell you within how much time it's going to take. Oh, this one's going to pop in about two weeks.
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Right. No, I'm serious. If I don't if I don't answer this one, and I'm not going to, right? Because I'm not supposed to do harm. Right. Right. I'm not supposed to make things worse. Yeah. And those people are just they're just being people. Right. Don't Right. Right. Don't right you can't hate people because they're they're sexual or they get horny. You know what I mean? They're supposed to be they're supposed to be good good times and places to get horny. And I think, you know, if I make somebody, you know, there was a woman who was interviewing me and had an orgasm while she was interviewing me and the photographer there caught it and not in photography, but he was witness to the whole thing. And I thought it was absolutely absolutely gorgeously fantastic. A verbal orgasm, an orgasm that was that was caused by the whatever tone I was hitting, whatever thing I was doing was caused this reaction. I thought it was absolutely gorgeous. But that's people are going to do different things. I can't you can't put somebody down for reacting in a way that's so natural and and good you know like good for the species that we do that otherwise nobody's going to be propagating you know what I mean sure definitely as I understand it you had been having a bit of a conversation with Aphrodite about the secret of the spont spontaneous orgasm just prior to this event. You always want to blame me, don't you? You couldn't be satisfied. You couldn't be satisfied with Oh, look what happened, right? You had to point out that it very much seems like a setup, right? I told you. Well, no, I that's that wasn't my intent, Ammon. That wasn't my intent. But but you do explore outside the cages that we are usually found inhabiting and sometimes that creates a little beauty, a little trouble, a little intoxication. Come on. Right. Right. Right. And sometimes it brings up somebody from prison saying, "I'm going to come and kill you because you're entering my dreams and you're doing XYZ." Right. So yeah, but yeah. Yeah, but my friend, you are like three kinds of weird monster at the same time. You are a psychop, you are a rapo. You are an enthusiast. You are an indicter of monists. These are the charges against you, Mr. Hillman.
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You are the most provocative classist currently walking on legs. Correct. Doctor of youth. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, because the expletive we're usually told, that's not corruption. What's corruption is when you violate the dominant narratives. That's corruption. Yeah. Apparently, well seen. Do you see how do you see why I like that first article so much? Because you have a way to verbalize the precise image of what's going on. So, I like that. I like that a lot. I'm sorry I didn't get back with you. Oh, that's fine, man. That's there's no you can forget about that. We're we're we're all good. And really, the thing I was just worried that perhaps something went wrong in our first interview and you didn't want to continue. So, it's nice to know that that wasn't the case. I was just trying to respect Danny. That's all. I was just trying Danny's wishes cuz I asked him, I said, "Can I do another one, you know, without, you know, what do you think?" And he said, "No, don't. No, cuz it you know whatever it doesn't matter. What matters to me is look in the whole process I'm finding out something. Um I do one thing. I do one thing and if I do that well, other people have other things they do and they work together and there's this there's this, you know, to for lack for I don't want like an 80s I don't want to be like an 80s business guy on cocaine, but it's the synergy, right? Yeah. Right. That's real. And I'm just learning that through YouTube. And you know, for me, it's been a big discovery process. And one of the things I've discovered is that people are good. There are good people out there. There there are intelligent artsy, crafty, people who could change the future. Everybody's everybody's pissed about, you know, artificial intelligence and all this. you know, we have all the talent in the pool that we have as human beings that we could really do something spectacular. Instead, we're putting people into cages and starving them and blowing their heads off. And yeah, and it's, you know, it's time for the Antichrist thing. I truly I truly I'm not I don't believe that. I see it. And it's only this resistance to it. Like I get death threats. I I get death threats. I know everybody gets death threats who has any sort of public profile. I get that. It's just a sign of the times. But my death threats are very specific. And you can tell they're from a specific group. And that same group is the group that's been swatting me. That same group, there's a lot of hatred out there. And people want what I am saying to stop. So if something should ever happen to me that I'm in those circumstances, know that I found the perfect moment. I found that place of ultimate resistance, right? that place where I could only want to be in a world full of expletive child rapists, murderers, genocidists, people who don't give a expletive about anything but their own godamn aggrandisement. In that world, I want to be on that edge where somebody gives me a turns my brain into that gorgeous lovely pink mist of doom. You know what I mean? That's where I want to be. M so let them come on and say whatever they're going to say. They always say the same, you know, crazy expletive and let's go. Let's duke it out. You know, this is something we also spoke of in our private conversation where, you know, for for many of us throughout much of our lives, the primary motivation is preserve my life, preserve my life, preserve my life, right? But you have this this incredible series of problems that arises when your life is just a bunch of relationships with boxes, rectangles, screens and cages, right? What kind of a life is that to preserve? And as particularly I think as men eventually we come to a place where we may realize that the actual move now is to give my life for something that matters. Right? And this is how the military captures young men, right? Because it it it proposes a way to give their life for something that matters. I'm not entirely sure that the military proposition is the best one or even a good one in some cases perhaps. Um but generally those structures are capturing and weaponizing a feature of our humanity that should be used for beauty and virtue for integrity for mutual protection and preservation for mutual concern and for our health and well-being and development not for the killing of people in other countries or dropping bombs. I mean, one of the questions occasionally a question will arise in my mind that very much surprises me and one of my favorite questions and perhaps you might care to respond to this just with whatever first comes to mind. What is the opposite of a bomb? Yeah. Yeah. Good question. And I have no answer cuz I Isn't that amazing? There is no OP. Is there an opposite? I don't think there is. I can think of a couple. Can you What's your What do you come up with? Well, the first is a is a mother. Ah, okay. Okay. A mother is the opposite of a bomb. Yeah. Because she's producing kids instead of loving and caring for them and protecting them and nourishing them and all of those things. Yeah. Yeah. Um but another is like a team of humans who have decided to synergize their intelligence and abilities for the sake of all beings. That's to heal to heal to educate to lift to resurrect our spirit here in this strange incarnation in modernity. Yeah. Yeah. A museum. You want to museum which is for the Yeah. But it's a protective Yeah. thing. Don't we have it as our duty to take on the genocide? Don't we have shouldn't they shouldn't the genociders be the ultimate enemy of the United States? I can we make that switch? Can you can you you know if the answer to injustice is justice? Um we're going to have to apply it. We can't just we can't just stop and say oops we stepped in and now we're going to step out. Right? Because that stain will stay. Everybody will know for the rest of time that United States bought a genocide, right? that we were taken over by a group of people with religious interests in extremism and destroying a specific group of people, right? The unpromised, the uncultivated, the unpromised. Um, everybody will know the United States funded that. And it was only because of our weaponry that they were able to do that. So don't we I mean the arms manufacturers are among the worst of the diseases that afflict our species in our world. Yeah. Even what's President Eisenhower, right? He was he saw that expletive He warned us. Yeah. The prison military industrial complex, if you don't re that in, they're going to own your children. Right.
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He didn't say it in exactly those words. I'm paraphrasing kind of wildly, but yeah, he knew. Yeah, he knew. Imagine everything that we gained from World War II in the in the eyes of the world. We were the beacon of freedom and justice. And now what are we going to be known for? A school full of Iranian school girls blown to hell. I mean, that's what we're going to be known for. That's Are you really going to go into the military thinking that those actions are going to give your life some sort of honor? that they're gonna make your death some sort of and people will say, "How dare you say that? The people who have died in the killing of the children in the school in Iran." Um, I got news for you. They're in hell. They're in a place where they're being tortured for what they expletive did. And see, this is the thing. The Greeks saw nemesis. They saw pure justice coming to you. Doesn't matter what your status is, your expletive country that you live. It doesn't matter. Justice is justice. To the dude who pushed the button on the ship that sent that tomahawk out, he has the same guilt. Do you think what you just going to excuse him? That's what the Nazis want. I was just following orders. I was just following orders. I didn't give a sh, you know, I didn't want this to happen. I was just following orders. No. expletive you. The stain remains. Your soul is stained and you cannot you cannot just throw off respons. Oh, Jesus died for me. Forget about I don't have to worry about it all. I'm a proud military expletive I push the buttons. I kill the children. No, that's not how the universe works out. It's not. So, um, it's our duty. It's our duty to show people there's We're all guilty, man. We're, you know, we're all guilty. We've all paid for that and we're going to have to answer to that and I don't I mean I I know that sounds like a preacher, right? Well, you are you are you do preach, right? This is what I mean when I say you're a rapo. And by the way, when I when I saw you like singing about the ancient Greek and stuff in the way that you do and you use your gaze, something we got to talk about, your gaze, right? You use your gaze, man. And
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when I saw you I was like wow this isn't just a rapo like an actor or a musician. This is a rapo about the ancient Greek where we got the idea of rapods from right so that kind of lit me up man that did kind of like and it still does you know although you're you know you can be a little dark and pretty vengeful at times. Yeah which why wouldn't you be? I mean you know you we don't need Superman now. We need We need Batman. We need somebody who's who's not worthy. You know, it's much much to Chewy Shagrin because she loves she loves that dastardly, handsomely gorgeous man who plays Man of Steel. But Henry, but you you need somebody the person who protects the song that is written on the skin that hangs in the tree, right? This person is famous throughout the world, right? And everybody knows you can't get near the dragon. The dragon will kill you, right? You'll be dead. That's all there is to it. The guardianship of that song is what is everything. It's what motivates me. It's what pushes me. It's the only beauty in this world. Um a position where one can be completely irresistible. Where one can face the darkness of death itself and not be afraid. the dragon above all others involved with the mystery of her voice. That dragon has to be the most have the most integrity and be the most courageous. He they have to be and that's what I hope and aspire just to be a fraction of if I can just be a fraction of that ancient value and the dragon then I've I've done something right. And if that means a bullet to the brain then godamn it give it to me right. But I'm getting out there and I'm doing my job, right? So, yeah, let's do it. How many There's going to be betting on whether or not we can survive, right? But it's punk, too, right? You remember the punk in the 80s and whatnot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. and what power it had and how it had a you know how it had a flare for social change and you know injustice for for
clears throat
highlighting injustice. I think there's something very natural in the in the music that helps defend us. I agree. Okay. So there are two important questions that I definitely want to get to and then we can continue or not as the spirit moves us. Okay. When you say hail Satan, yeah, who is this Satan in your mind and spirit?
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Oh God, he is a handsome devil. He's
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he's got a weakness. You know, that's the thing. You can dance with the devil as long as you know his weakness, right? His his and I know his weakness and it's all over the evidence what his weakness is and the way that he acts. So he's predictably powerful, right? As a as an entity, he's the ruler of everything around you, the cosmos, the organization, and the structure. This is not Yahoo's realm, right? If it were, we wouldn't have aeros. We wouldn't have that liberty, right? We would be bound. And so that's part of the bak satanic. When people realize that there's something called a bak satanic chorus, this is an ancient idea. Um they don't they they perceive for the first time that there is a unity that Satan is bacas. They understand that, right? If if they're looking at it that way in antiquity and they're embracing it as Satan is that bacic ecstasy, right? That sexual music that is naturally programmed into us, whether we're turtles or people, right? The basic programming of the universe is coming through that satanic bucket chorus. Your mind is the way it is because of an invisible satanic chorus. Okay? And what the hell does that mean? It means that I can manipulate you. It means that I can bring you to places that you don't necessarily want to go, but places that are necessary for you to be purged. That's what I am doing here. I'm purging you. I'm holding up the mirror. Right? That's the bak mentality, right? It's every we see that reflected in literature and hymns and everything. That's the bak mentality. So once you understand that and you kind of grasp the physics of the invisible, you know, when I was really studying hard as a graduate student in classics, I was around professors of physics. they shared the department with the
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history of pharmacy department and in the far in the department of pharmacy and they well I'd share the toilets with himself and talk to the scientists and whatnot and as I'm doing that I am studying in the Greek the invisible components of the cosmos things that keep everything working right while I'm curiously asking about and the math these guys use and oh god I just can't keep up with it. It just it's totally nonsense to me. But it's fun to listen to them try to describe the universe at the same time as seeing the actual keys that these Greeks are saying who are also studying the universe are saying hey pay you may want to pay attention to this and it makes gorgeous gorgeous sense and it works. You're talking about my my gaze, right? My very famously my students at St. Mary's had a my seminarians had a strange conception that if they looked into my eyes that it would do something to them and not not in a good way, right?
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I use I also use my gaze, not precisely in the same way that you do, but I'm well aware of something that resembles what I clumsily understand the Greeks to have understood, which is the gaze is not passive. It reaches out. It touches with a spirit. The spirit that orients the purpose of making contact with seeing and what is seen. But I I need to I I I I hope to understand something that I find confusing. Where does this term Satan come from? And surely this is a fairly recent idea or concept at least as at least as the Christians have counterfeited it. I don't know what the right word is. So when you say hail Satan, who is it you are you are hailing? Is it Lucifer? Tell me who how why do you use that that name instead of an older name? Help me understand what's going on here. Yeah, because one thing that I am putting forward that I think will take some time to for people to look at but should be provable pretty quickly is that Satan and Saturn in Greek are related and the satarinus that is there is when we derify it is becoming Satan. So and droification that removal of the row is common right especially in the environment of the new. So in is the end letter right the final letter. So look if satnian worship is the same as the bak satanic course, if you are creating an age of freedom and the purpose of your religious association is to enhance and promote freedom, liberty so that your festival Festivals like the Saturnelia promote one thing. Slaves don't have to be slaves for the day. Masters, you have to serve your slaves for the day. You have to learn what it is to be a slave. That's what the lesson of the Saturnelia is. And it gives those slaves, a feeling, a feeling of that freedom for a little bit. That's what Bak worship does. It's all about freedom. The ecstasy of bacic worship is just a tool for freedom. And that freedom is so dangerous. It extends even to governments. So that Rome was afraid of the freedom that the Bakic satanic chorus produced. And what is it? It's an it's an it's a golden age. The Satnian age is a is an age where people are liberated from that entity that wants to enslave them, use them, rape them, kill them. So we get our concept of the savior. We're getting that through this satnian bak chorus.
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That's why they could say a satanic pocket chorus because to them it was the Satnian. So people are going to find that out. It's Darren. It doesn't take a lot of now that we have tools that we have like the TLG and everything. Classics research is going to rapidly explode. And one of my own students wrote an entire did a program involving an artificial intelligence now that is translated. He just translated all of Galen's antidotes. Wow. Right. Yeah. And I'm reading the translation now. We're going to finesse it so that the so that the AI learns the I I learns the translation skill is the best that I can give it. And then maybe the translation pro AI can then stand on my shoulders and go beyond and figure out the finest nuance of the Greek, you know, and next thing you know, we've got all of these sources that are talking about Christing. They're they're all readable here. Look, you can read them in English, right? So, who is the devil? Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, help me out. Help me understand what you see and know when you think or speak of this. Yeah. No, we all know who the devil is. The devil is the one who stood in God's face and said, "Fuck you. expletive you and expletive your rules. You're a shitty God. Go expletive yourself. I'm going to be honest with the lady." Cuz he's got a weakness for her, right? He's got a weakness. He doesn't want her to be abused. He doesn't want subjugated. He doesn't want the hubris, right? That's who the devil is. Cuz we think we hear the opposite thing. The devil is all hubris. God is all beauty and innocence, right? But if we're talking about Yahoo, I don't think we're talking about God.
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Okay. Is the problem. So, you're more gnostic, right? You're thinking like the Gnostics. It's very complex. I mean, I have some direct experience of these matters and it's not my place here today to elucidate that, right? And it and it's very not like how humans are inclined to think at all. Um, but I always supposed that Yahweh was the divine being. And um, only recently in listening to histories of Yaoism and stuff did it become very obviously clear to me that this is not the case. Right. Right. This is a story. Right. Right. that was articulated and and rearticulated and concocted and composed over long periods of time in specific branches of humanity and is very confusing. Um and and openly genocidal. Openly genocidal. You know, when you read the Septuagent, which is what we call the Old Testament, right? Or you call it the Torah, including Sure. the prophets and everything like that, the histories, the books of wisdom. All of that is in Greek, right? and I can go and read it and I can read ancient Judean commentaries on that Greek. I can look at that Greek through the Greek lens and I can tell you from all the Greek that I've read over 36, 37 years, however long it is now, I have never I've never come across the genocide. A cultural movement that produces a religion bent on genocide as the ultimate goal is not something you see coming about in Greek literature. You see the exact opposite movement away from it. Whoever is influencing the writing of the Old Testament is doing it in a way to contradict a stream of freedom, a Satnian stream throughout the Greekeaking world. There's a movement against anything that would be like genocide. That's why when I read it in the Septuagent, it strikes me as as as out of place. It's completely out of place. It's like it was an implanted. It's like somebody went in and said, "Look, all we have to do is we have to get inside the computer and we have to rewrite part of its programming. And once we rewrite this little tiny section, the whole thing will perform differently. It'll perform just like we want it to." Yeah. Yeah. And and that's what you can see when you're reading that genocidal bit in the Septuagent. You're like, "Oh, wow. This is very much out of place." Right. No, it's like putting poison in water. The water quenches your thirst. Unless there's poison in it. Right.
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Right. Good. Yeah. The water is great. You bathe in it.
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You give it to your children. Unless there's poison in it. Right. Exactly. Now the whole water is poisoned. Now water, what water means has been changed, right? Now it's death. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. It's like you switch its polarity and all of a sudden all of a sudden you've got this monster, this monster, this this text that will justify the shooting of children in the face. And the Israelis are all sucking it in. They're all yelling Amalcch, Amalcch, Amalcch. Right. Um well those let's be clear those Israelis who are doing that correct correct are doing that those are not all Israelis you know there have got to be a certain percentage of the Israeli population who is absolutely horrified absolutely any anyone who's still human I mean not to be judgmental but that's just there are some things that are so abysmally wrong that if you can't see that that's wrong and see Nur you have the Nuremberg obligation to call these people exactly what they are. Um there must be some percentage of Israelis who don't go like I know that there are guys who have gone to prison because they won't go into the military. They're saying nope I won't go do my service. Absolutely not. So they put them in the prison. I know there are some people like that. Um I actually know brilliant a few brilliant Israelis who have worked and risked their lives to turn the tide in this situation. I know personally a few of them and they are brilliant amazing spirited human beings that I respect and admire the beauty and the power of their their courage and their mission. And that's why it has nothing to do with race. It doesn't. Right. Because you can see they're Jewish too but they they're part of the good. So, this goes to anyone. Yeah. This I just want to clarify something. This addresses anyone who might conceive of calling you an anti-semite. There's nothing like that going on with you. I know. I've watched you. Right. I know that's not what's happening. You're an anti- genocide, right? Right. I've known too many people that I know. Although they're they're Jewish, they would never they're just people. their their background, their ethnic background doesn't force them to want to be genocidal. I know I I want to clarify something else. There are people in every walk of life who will capitalize on the suffering of others to promote their own wealth and power and so forth in every race on earth. In our country, this is rampant, right? So, this is everywhere and it and it's not because of some specific race. or gender. It doesn't matter. This isn't a race issue. This is a species issue. Yeah. Exactly. With homo sapiens. Exactly. That's why we've got to stand outside of this nation state idea and just say, "Look, all humans should, you know, most of us don't want to kill children. So, let's have some expletive global declaration of human dignity. You know, you can't expletive or kill children. How's that?" Yeah. Let's let's do that. Or or anyone. How about we just stop slaughtering living beings altogether? Yeah. What's wrong with that? I was listening to Sadguru the other day and he was talking about the world and how complex even the smallest part of nature is and he said something very profound. If you cannot create it, do not destroy it. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. That's beautiful. Right. That's an artist. That sounds like an artist to me. Somebody Yeah. I mean, it's so obvious. He's like this isn't a complex thing. This is the simplest thing. Yeah. Right. If you cannot create the beauty of the earth and the world and the living beings, do not destroy it. Right? Don't break what you can't make. Right? I think there's a problem though because once the cancer is started, you can't you can't do anything but directly cut it out. You've got to try the people who have been in charge. You've got to bring those people to justice. If we just overlook it and say, "Oh, we're gonna cut Israel's funding way back and we're just, you know, huh, don't look at what happened." If we do that, it's it's still going to be there. It's it's I agree. I agree to a degree. There are some other options, though. Um, the most intelligent forms of war, they don't go directly at the enemy. They go at what they go at what nourishes the the enemy forces, right? they go at this this pivot their root right and if you can capture that root there are many forms of war that orbit this aspect right because sometimes a force is so entrenched culturally socially and historically that if you come at direct if you come at it directly it blossoms right so sometimes we need the kind of insight and intelligence that gives us the capacity to steal the foundation of the thing away from it and then it just collapses. Right? Direct conflict is sometimes important. If I get in direct conflict with monism, then I've done my job. I keep telling Chewy, if this thing gets me killed, then you will have done exactly what you were supposed to do. Um, yes. But also, if it beautifies your soul, right? No. Well, doesn't have to get you killed for you to succeed is what I'm saying. No, but you know what I'm saying. Yes, I do. Because somebody has to confront the enemy. Somebody has to be there to say, "No, this is where it stops." Yeah. I'm I'm going to call you out and I'm going to show the world what you are. And I don't care what your threats are. I don't care. I mean, this is what our what the military of an enlightened nation would probably be doing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. When you have an active insurrection, a cancer that's eating out your constitution, right? That military is everything. They're supposed to defend the Constitution. Yeah. Against enemies, foreign and domestic and domestic. Ding, ding,
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ding, ding, ding, ding. And domestic people. And this doesn't mean go around pointing fingers at everyone you think might be the enemy because they don't think like you. That's not what it means. It means composing a chorus of the people that can see and make intelligent and beautiful humane decisions and then the military becomes the body of inaction of those decisions, right? That con sorry, go ahead. when they have already committed their our own people and resources to killing people that were really not justified in killing. I mean, there's no justification for what they're doing. When you have committed your military to that, you've corrupted them. But it's only because their leaders didn't stand up. The guy with the right the guy with the fleet, where was the admiral? Well, um, he's not supposed to follow orders that are that are contrary to basic values that we have as human beings. He's Yeah. There's there's another thing that I want to call out here that's really important. When you see some nation's military attacking civilians, that is fundamentally off the table. And when you start to see that happening, you better understand that your children and families are going to be next. Yeah, they're next. And how do you and I know that? Because that's history. Cuz you've looked at some history and you said, "Oh, this is what happens." Now, if we get expletive and if we get a fake history, we get a history that's been altered. We can't make those decisions. We can't have the moral edge and say, "Wait a minute. Look, they did this in the past and it did not end up well." Right. So, I I applaud you and maybe that's why you're I trust I trust your work is because you you know when it comes down to it, you're about the evidence and you want to look at the evidence. You want to see and it's not just the EV. Yes, that's true. The evidence, but it's the spirit, right? what is the true spirit of our people and what captures and counterfeits that and you know weaponizes against our histories and futures and hopes and dreams and the urgencies that we bring to human birth. If you talk to almost any child, right? They will say the most beautiful things you have ever heard. They will tell you don't kill the people. Don't slaughter the animals. Why are you doing these horrible things? You have to stop. Right? Any almost any child will tell you this. Most of the mothers and any sane father will say like this is fundamentally inexcusable. Yeah. Right. This is we were not born for this. We were born for something beautiful and brilliant to become together. Yeah. What about that generation? the next upcoming generation of Israelis who are watching, they're just kids now, and they're watching their relatives go out and slaughter people, right? And they're filled with this propaganda of hate. What kind of generation are they going to produce? They're going to have they're going to make this one look like they're completely merciless. I mean, like they're completely normal. Let's hope not. People keep saying people keep saying, "Well, don't don't don't the Israelis have the right to defend themselves?" Um, nobody has the right to commit genocide. That's the way it is. That's not defending yourself. That's not defending yourself. It's genocide. Yeah. Right. So, I hear the explanations from Israeli mouths, right, that they're going public. They're saying it on podcasts. They're saying it on news. They're saying, "Oh, well, um, the reason we can justify killing those children is because they're going to grow up to do the same thing." So, it's almost like they have wired themselves, right? The training has wired themselves. And I'm just thinking to myself, you know, when I was 20, do you think I would have dated somebody like this when I was living in Israel? Do would I have ever dated somebody who came up to me and said, "You know what? Killing kids is okay." Right? My god, do you realize what this the rest of the world is looking at you, seeing you for the monster that you have become? Doesn't that wake you up? What the expletive is wrong with Israelis that they're not looking at the world's reaction saying, "Oh, maybe we're doing something wrong." No, they're just doubling down, right? Pushing forward. What the expletive Do they have a minority of people who follow justice that can overthrow the government and sweep out all the pedos? I mean, Jesus is, you know, that's the only way they're going to redeem themselves. But that's that's neither here nor there. And these actions, I think we we we too commonly think about human factions and we don't realize that actions like this, they change what it means to be human forever. Exactly. That stain stay it lands on every human heart, right? You're you're harming every human being who has a heart or a spirit or loves other people. You're hurting them, right? You may be slaughtering people in Gaza, but you're staining the meaning of of our species and our history and our future. Right? This is inexcusable and has to come to an end. It is has to come to an end. Make it come to an end. Godamn it. Right. Yeah. Right. Oh god. Not necessarily by any means necessary because we don't want to become uglier than what we oppose. No. Right. That's the thing. You've got to sit back and say, "Well, what is justice in these circumstances?" Right. And what is what is the most beautiful route to the and powerful route to that justice? These are questions that matter. Yeah. We must pursue together. It's good that we're pursuing questions like that because that's, you know, that's better than pursuing, you know, your expletive tea time on the golf course, you know, because
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right now I just need to know, have you ever golfed? Um, I tried once, but I was so incredibly bored. I wasn't terrible or good, but I was so incredibly bored. I I was looking for books in the bushes. I was like, is there a book or something out here to read? Do you golf? I don't mean to offend you.
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I don't want to I don't want to shame anybody who loves golf. I just had to ask you because this is a question no one has asked you, right? I just needed to know like can you sustain the horror and the boredom of golfing? Right. And I am not surprised to hear that you did not pass that Rubicon. Right. That gauntlet. You fell before that gauntlet. Yeah, right.
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It's pretty much, you know, it's pretty much just putting a ball in a hole, dude. You know? Okay. After one hole, I'm good.
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No, I I have to admit, I like miniature golf. Yeah, miniature golf is kind of fun cuz you can do it with the kids and they can laugh and it's not serious. Yeah. And it's also there's all these little contraptions and it's sort of like a Rube Goldberg, you know, contraption thing. Yeah. I have I have fun miniature golfing, but it's been many years since I've done so. Okay. Okay. So, there's there's a couple more things I want to get at. Okay. Who is the dead girl? How did you meet her? Um, we're going to have to make that part of number two. Yeah, number two. The I've got to get out before my 5:15, which Chewy, extend to 5:30, please, and send them a notice that we'll start at 5:30. I'm going to have to get out and get some more fresh air. And you have an open invitation anytime. So take advantage of it and just let me know in the morning and say I want to finish that interview. But look, you made it perfect. You invoke the muse of healing and look at that. So thank you. I'm going to go sustain myself and do it. What the hell? Look, if I had to have one piece of advice, it's in your stay stay in shape when you're in your 30s and 40s so that when your 50s get there, you're not I put too much. I don't know about you. Do you exercise on a regular basis? Yeah. Do you have like something you do like do you bike or do you walk or do you Yeah, I mean I like to run. I don't do that all the time these days. I'll leave out why. I I try to get in 10 miles a day of walking. And thankfully, when I was younger, I learned Tai Chi. Tai Chi is really profound for your heart health, especially for older people. Okay. Right. So, Tai Chi, I I wish I was as smart as you and I wish I'd kept exercising. Did you do all that stuff in your in your 30s and 40s? Yeah, but I was also a smoker. Yeah, you gota you know's
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I mean mostly just out of what loneliness and confusion. I mean what we'll talk someday about the nature of addiction. Ammon. Yes. Thank you so much for giving you this time today when you were you know having a rough morning and stuff. And also Chewy you are the stuff man. Chewy, your work. I We're going to talk We're going to talk about this, right? Because Chewy and and the muses like there's an association here, but we'll definitely definitely education and everything. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Thanks for the patience with me. I appreciate it. And and keep me informed. Darren, it's an honor. Honor for me as well. Ammon, may your health flourish and e fllorores may you heal and breathe and continue loving and teaching. I'm going to I'm going to think about that while I'm walking. Thank you. And it's an honor. It's a real honor. Same here. Thank you, Ammon. Peace for now. Peace.