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Transcript: The Witches' Symposium 06： Sacred Theatre
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Hello hello we are live welcome to witches symposium today um Dion you have lady Snappy we have uh Rich Gunk rich and miss the Dr almond in the corner and we might have uh Neil from Gnostic informants showing up in a little while we don't know but either way we're going to have an intriguing debate today we're a little late jumping on because we were already debating before we got on about the information I love it love it we want to challenge some issues today about theater
In the ancient past you know this is witch's symposium so you know we're going to do a little witchery and hoo-ha concerning theater and yesterday we did a podcast or a video about sacred theater in Greece
And how it evolved out of the dionysian Mysteries and it evolved into something called city dionysia which was a competition a festival in Athens that became a uh like a government sponsor dionysia you could say with poetry
Um they had tragedies comedies satires and this was six days in the in the uh the city shut down and it was a wild event but we're debating about the role of women because we had a question and somebody asked us a question because yesterday we discussed uh in a lot of literature it says that women were banned from the stage and that men had to take on the roles of women and wear these masks and we don't know if that's true or not that's what we're going to start
What do you think about that Snappy well just I mean I keep I was reading some literature about this idea of there's sort of this kind of de-radicalization process that happens with the cult of Dionysus which in the earliest forms it's largely women-centric you know and it's based in the wilds and they're engaged in these ecstatic rights but then there's a process of it becoming you know more tamed down and moved into the cities but there's a lot of problematic issues with this because we have so little written
About it you know there's so little evidence and the evidence we do have is all of this is written by men right talking about women you know so we don't have any first counts of these women and what actually was going down and we do we do know that women are still a central part of the cult of Dionysus even as it moves into the cities so that's what I wanted to ask like um Ammon what are your thoughts on what's going on with this this shift
From you know the Wilderness Focus to to the city and to the development of theater and what's going on there I think it's up my crack and what I mean by that expression is that um something stinks and this is the kind of theorizing I hate but I love the topic of what you're talking about because people think Dionysus and they
Think these exact circumstances that you're talking about right but we know in the Linear B those of us who dug deeper we know that he's there so this is old old established
Worship by women
It is so fundamentally women that the God himself appears as one yeah now can you take the mean ads out of the worship of Bacchus you don't have the worship of Bacchus anymore right we still remember it's that projection of mean ads that goes to um initiate the entire process of bringing back the great Korra right those of us who have been to eluses and whose eyes are open know that it's that bucket chorus of women that leads the way so you can debate you can have feminists on one
Side misogynists on the others you can have the old white mail order on one side you can have the feminists on the other they can shoot each other and just give them a bunch of guns and let them go at it right um but the fact is the feminine component and the transformative component of the bakic
Right is you can't take out if you if you take out the eunuch you don't have the right anymore right this is this is old old long before that's why the Romans are trying to import this stuff this is the great mother you know what I mean the great mother and we're learning the great mother Colt it's beautiful what you guys are doing you bring it out and Dionysus lands
Lands in uh Athens right and it doesn't mean that that cult changes because the whole purpose of the cult is the purification right they do the purification bro you know they will rip your head off they will rip your head off yeah and you you can't do anything when they're actually out there performing if they catch you they'll kill you and eat you I mean it's so amazingly
Um blood and flashy you know what I mean for the sake of the for the sake of the Resurrection right for the sake of that coming back and now you have the perspective of all that's what the great mother gives you you can't take the eunuchs out of that they're doing all this stuff so yeah when a classicists debate back and forth was a woman allowed to sit in the performances said okay just uh have fun have fun but the rights don't work and these priesthoods are keeping these
Rights they're guarding these rights they have laws about letting things out like the formula that everybody's drinking and getting completely stoned under right was you know you can't let that get out it's a state secret why is it a state secret why is it polish secret because their purification
Keeps the city going right we go and watch these things the Romans absorbed the very same thinking with the arena right if you and I could go sit and watch Mass Shooters Mass shoot it'll Purge us it'll Purge us of that desire think of that psychology right it's so is some of that behind the the drift in the bucket cult where we are we losing our mean ads over time I don't know in uh in the second century and I'll shut up after this but you got you asked the in the second century you know BC second
Century there's a big problem Romans have an uprising of bakkens right a Resurgence of the cult and do you know what they do do you know what they do Libby tells us they rounded up 2 000.
Women
And put them to death and they were women who were very influential women yeah wives of senators you know so um you don't have the pocket cult you don't have Dionysus if you don't have that feminine
Guidance Vector yeah okay I'll stop
It The Purge you know I would dare to say that the Inquisition that's when they try to ramp it up and just put in the final nail you know and finally get rid of witchery and women and but the goddess ain't going nowhere I think that's the topic of the the show today shouldn't be about uh what we thought it was about it's about the goddess ain't going nowhere you know the sacred feminine you can't Purge that you can try ain't gonna happen you know and that's what theater is about
It's absurdity learning life's lessons through tragedy and comedy sometimes it's difficult the bitter pill but you know hey we gotta swallow it that's what I wanted to ask you Ammon because you'd been talking about this before privately with us where you were connecting the establishment of democracy in the creation of the polis to The Cult of Dionysus and to this group healing what's going on there can you talk about that a bit yeah you just have to watch them in their original performance what do they
Tell us here look let's we reach back in time and grab euripides and we pull him out and we say who is this dude who's writing about the bucket cult right and it's power it's a guy who's this he by the way he writes in a cave for those of you that know euripides wrote in a cave and his mother his mother was a rhizotomist what is that that's a root cutter and it's not just somebody who just collects fruit it's somebody who is exceptionally knowledgeable in the use
Of very dangerous um extremely uh
Oh I think we lost m in there have you frozen oh no all right moment in time a moment in time all right but that's okay so I'm sure Ammon will come back there but yeah right so we were looking at the the uh the theater the thing that really interested me the most that you were able to find Dion was this connection to the healing right do you want to talk about that a bit in the in the oh there we go we got Ammon back
Internet again sorry about that no no that's okay it's just bad he was talking about about euripides mother was uh uh a priestess or a shaman she was a Healer certainly a sorceress you might call her a sorceress but somebody who's carrying on those that tradition of the overlap of the drugs and the cult because that's where I'm interested in is what those drugs are actually doing what those drugs are there for but um that feminine uh knowledge which
We have coming through in the abortivations that you use I was just working with someone this morning on a part of the right where the dragon consumes the child Flesh and Blood um as she births
So what what is this um what is it exactly that they're doing and you know why these images so yeah um it's all that great that great mother cult it's coming from that there's a common ancestor to this stuff and that's what it is yeah love it love it um you know you can make the connection to the temples to escape this and you can talk about Bronze Age um Medical society and you know the use of fumigations and that kind of stuff too you can make a direct connection with Bacchus that way so whenever you see
This group of um theater healing and with with just a Twist of aphroditic aphroditics you know there might be some sex idolatry going on somebody may have their testicles cut off right at some point right that kind of thing um that's all you know we want to say that that's cold it's not just cold there's a lot of medicine in there and there's a lot of science that they're following so yeah yeah no I love it I love it I got off track but um when you're trying to bring that Medusa figure forward who is that nobody realizes that the name Medusa
It's the name of a virgin Priestess right she's got the oil in her hair that can turn you to Stone they're bow people right imagine the horses and all that kind of stuff like that in order to bring that figure back you have to reach into some of the where the real science is of what they're doing and that's what I don't like about this debate we're women allowed dude you can't have the cult without the women you just can't she's coming back just like yeah
I just thinking about this amazing aspect of both theater and Magic right because when we look at the oldest some of the oldest forms of magic what do we see in its heart performance and we see masks and we see these people trying to draw down these stars and become possessed to become transformed into you
Know to literally embody these kinds of deities and it's it's almost like a literal theatrical performance you know like it's one thing I wanted to ask you about rich because you've done so much of this kind of classical ceremonial magic do you see any of this kind of performance at the heart of that uh yeah well I mean depending on which group or time frame you want to talk about there's a lot of nuance in there but certainly
In modern times the thalamites were literally trying to uh do the euripides Buckeye play so there's that but even before before that we can see like in Egypt yeah there's rituals which seem very much like theater plays and the priests would play the gods and say their lines and it was all very scripted and it wasn't but it wasn't performed for an audience everybody in the ritual was playing a part like the initiate might be quieter but the so they were doing it it was very
Dramatic but it was also kind of private so but it could be public at certain times the Egyptians were very um guarded about their inner Chambers or the inner parts of the temple but certainly as you said uh taking on the role of the deity was not uncommon in a variety of places
Right I always think of like go ahead what do you think why do you think everybody wanted to buy Mary right she was a temple virgin right right out from the heart of what was going on she was special she was special right oh God this is gorgeous
Yeah amazing right you know there's always something about also within the theater you always see this this transformation of these men becoming women right the word drag one of the origins one of the possible Origins for that word is from theater right dressing up as like as a girl it was slang terms used in The Shakespearean Theater Company you know and it's such an essential right you even see it talked about in Plato where he's talking about how these theater performers are making this transformation and there's these
Allusions to the mystery so there's something seriously powerful going on with these actors and with this performance of fiction that even the Ancients are understanding you know Ancient Ancient theater makes Shakespeare look like a back alley
Job you know what I mean it makes it look like a back alley job um don't forget we're fumigating everybody in the process of these right we this is a ritual purification so we are fumigating everybody around we're already kicked up one level right so that possession that takes place you ought to see a band of me nuts you ought to see them do you think they would act disparately right imagine taking a group of 20 women and putting them under the influence of psychosis-inducing drugs to the point
That they will kill somebody that's a relative of theirs right right in front of them and then consume them to have a have a a a a a a meal of them eat their eat their flesh and drink their blood right that's what they call it right yeah right here
And they always end up at Aphrodite that's what the saying is they always end up in Aphrodite those big phalluses that are in the temples right there's they're they're there for a reason right and Augustine hates it sitting on the phallus It'll like this right oh love it that you have to be possessed man imagine how that group of women would be possessed and that's why I'm saying you can't have the bucket right without crazy possessed drug enthused
Um ritual cleansers of your Society right no you you were talking about this Dion right like it's a six Day Festival the first day opens up with the the rights of asclepius but then everyone's encouraged to get as drunk and as Randy as humanly possible and to ensure that everyone's as Randy as possible they have these seder sex plays that are peppered throughout the whole entire week right you know the the significance of the goat involved and it's from the beginning it's they sacrifice a goat at the beginning
They perform tragedies based off goat songs they drink Libations of goat milk in the winter he gets a goat as his prize the goat is tied to it you know and the seders are where the goat skins and get all crazy with the leather dildos we still call the greatest people of all time the goats what's going on there you know it was a wild time but but I I I can see how for the polis it had to be part of a city function it became a way to generate finances to have a cathartic release for the for the villagers
Um political stuff for the leaders of the city you know you had to keep the the priests you know happy because they wanted to do the real rituals that's what I was talking about yesterday is that during the same time they were doing the diagnostic rituals underground or behind the scenes the real ones you know the regular folks are sitting in the theater why the rich people are off at the top of the mountain doing the real stuff you know and because they talk about some of the sacrifices weren't on stage
Like like it'd be off stage and you would hear uh a messenger or an actor would come and say Hey you know like the character has died you know he'll tell you about them being killed behind the scenes for some reason but but the the sexualness was right there on display which seems to have been reversed in the Roman era you know later on when it became just violence on on Parade you know with the Coliseum
It makes you wonder what those women were doing that the Romans rounded up for that Insurrection and by the way you can check the text I'm not kidding you talks about they found part of the things that they used to incriminate them were the drugs right they're using a common type group of drugs for compounds and the women that had it in their houses they ended up arresting and interrogating and yeah yeah but what's interesting is why are they having to do it is there something
About corruption in Rome that these group this group of women is involved in bringing down right are they actually performing a service to the state it's you know it's questionable it's questionable what's and I think it's a Remnant this bakic power
Is a remnant of the Bronze Age when you had these strong Queen females who made boatloads of eunuchs yeah and uh had control of society and they called them the Medusa right as those who were performing that guardianship that and it's the same route for medicine right it's the same route for doctor so this group of women had a knowledge that they were holding up and they were enforcing all this with the drugs with the arrow poisons I was just working with somebody today on apocalypse and I said why did Jesus have
A bow and he said what and he had just read it I said yeah why did Jesus have a bow because he's Marduk right does it isn't marduko have the bowl of creation and isn't that that is penis like come on it's the oyster it's the oyster it's what Odysseus is not looking for it's that communion that gets us to that place and these Medusa are guarding this right and they have amazing power you should see the men and the uh people don't focus on this whenever they make a production of the Odyssey they focus
They never see this but you should see the fear that Odysseus and his men have for a Bronze Age Queen it's it's it's amazing you're gonna get somebody's telling them right at the gates you're gonna get your nuts chopped off in there you better take this you better take this drug she's gonna drug you you're gonna go listen to Hermes or she's coming for your balls yeah welcome Neil thanks for joining us how's it going how are you doing good I'm glad to be here I apologize for running behind a couple of things I had to take care of
But it happens no worries oh good you know Neil what we were uh debating or get not debating but talking about why classic authors try to sanitize women from early sacred theater in Greek Theater when cons concerning are considering that these are women Mysteries that they're that they're performing in the play how is that possible that you're performing a a theater piece about a woman's mystery but female actors are not supposed to be on the stage that don't make sense
Which is why Ammon argues that it's not actually happening that there's not enough evidence to support that right yeah I definitely believe that I mean I mean there's these are the priestesses these are the um Temple Guardians the medusas these are they have high rank this is not just like a patriarchal society like we were used to like we're coming out of that thousand years of patriarchal rundown of the Pope and the king and the high priests and the in the and the and then under that you have the the Bishops and then the Cardinals and then it's like
Where there's you don't get to any women for like whole layers and layers down but in the ancient Greek world like it maybe it's not perfect like we we think it like we want today to be but the women are on top and in high places and there were there are women of power is what it is there are women who wield extraordinary power right yeah women who wield power through men or like anyway they're all represented there the issue I think that it's at the heart of this and that we see is that a lot of these
Women were not literate or if they were their writings were reattributed to other people or they don't survive you know because we don't see much of their perspective unless you know unless we go digging for it because it's either been obscured or been erased you know you do have that alexandrian prophets what's her name again um uh that philosopher she got killed by the Christians oh geez I can't remember her name oh yeah I know who you're talking about um oh my gosh yes
Yeah yeah hypatia thank you thank you I was just about to Google it she like there's a prime example highly not even just Highly Educated probably the smartest person on the planet during her time like seriously at least one of them yeah right undisputably that yeah and she the CR it's it's like almost like an ironic like a like a piece of art and I don't mean this to like glorify it but like it makes sense that she was killed by Christians
Like you like you look at that that part of history and you're like did we go backwards I do I think we did did you have a brilliant philosopher woman being murdered by Christians and then for the next Thousand Years you'll never see anything like hypatia again you get nuns and some some of them become Saints but what are they becoming Saints for yeah and we don't we don't see anyone comparable I guess until like Hildegard of bingen right but then she has to do that through the Catholic
Church right yeah and then Empress Irene that finally there's going to be powerful you know a powerful woman in in charge of things and then she gets ousted by the pope because Charlemagne was better because he wanted Charlemagne to be the king so like that she was supposed to be the she had all the rights all the legal all the legal stuff she was next in line to be the emperor of the Roman Empire and the pope is supposed to say yeah you know we're going to anoint you but a woman
Hell no we're gonna go up we're gonna go up north to these barbarians and find this guy Charlemagne we're gonna make him the king we're gonna start a whole new Holy Roman Empire up here because we don't want a woman to be running and sure that's like that type of stuff is like that tells you how what the time period was like you know I can I add one thing just to jump back in the ship and go a little further back into the priestesses
Um there is a [\\h__\\h] ton of evidence to show that the knowledge that these priestesses had and were in control of right is so technical that it requires it requires some kind of record-keeping
System some sort of magic documentation
Can I submit to you that it was these priests not only are they literate but they are the sources of writing on the Greek side let me just step back let me just step back you know this is quite the claim there Ammon yeah yeah no it is and the the I love it don't get me wrong yeah no and the Greeks trace it that way Ryan it's this mother of so and so Vander Wright she's the one who brought the Phoenician characters over what his
Mother is involved in a writing system I thought the the smarties at Cambridge and Oxford told me Nikki nobody could come into your room if they were a woman right no no you're wrong you're wrong
Yes it's all the drugs are the stamp that shows because these are uh all drugs that are having to do with things that women are involved with unless you're controlling somebody's cycle who's man right
That's the thing right unless you've got a woman who's got a castrated boy and she is feeding him the right substances giving him the anal medical applicator that is the that is the uh you know the communion that kicks him over you can take this eunuch and you can drink from the eunuch you can drink from the unit and it'll help you not get
Um not react when you're bitten by a Viper can you believe that it'll help you not to react if you get bitten by a Viper if you drink this this kid from this cup exactly right Paul
You know um what was I gonna say [\\h__\\h] oh um yeah oh yeah so the um a lot of times too you see like look at look at this even even when like even when you start seeing like the crossover from Roman uh Republic to Empire even in that time like look at look at the mother of Augustus the wife of Augustus and these are like they they let like they had high reverence for women who
Like they had like there were there still was this idea that women can have power and can can be in control and have authority and like it's like like I'll just give you an example like when Augustus died in 14 in the Common Era and Tiberius was next in line everyone knew that the real person in charge was uh was um Julia she was the oh what was that I guess it's his wife's name Julia Julia thanks Julia yeah Julia everyone knew that she was the real Empress of the like if you
Look at the sources and read out as she was the she was in charge of everything well this is one thing that's actually interesting because I remember reading some of these early accounts of the early Roman State and one of the things that stood out that their neighbors all comment on is their ridiculous levels of patriarchy and how it's in opposition to everyone around them and how that real male Centric kind of attitude is very Roman and the Romans actually kind of identify with that and push that forward
Across their empire in many ways and it only gets worse by the Empire period you know yeah it does but it gets even more worse when Christianity Becomes of course the religion because at that point now you're looking at five now you're looking at like oh the man is in charge oh Abraham Isaac you're all you're thinking man patriarch preacher like but yeah it does so when it switches over to Empire when you have that Emperor then you start seeing you start seeing that shift but even in that like I mentioned Olivia who's also known
As Julia Augusta she was the most popular most powerful person in the Empire and then if you even go to the Septimus Severus period uh Julia domna she got deified she was like Jesus they worship like a God I'm not kidding look this up she was she was worshiped as a god and that was this is we're talking third Century here so go go ahead well I was just gonna say yeah I mean there's definitely a difference between the Greeks and Romans in this and uh we
Can read uh warnings about women who are drugging their husbands with love potions and driving them insane with Nightshade psychosis so when you have these Senators wives joining dionysian Cults it looks suspicious if nothing else you know these are the kinds of people who might have that knowledge even if they're Innocent but then you also can read in like Josephus about all these uh well he considers them silly women who thought they were having sex with gods and these people who were impersonating gods and then it
Kind of oddly goes into the the story of Jesus is like but here is the real one with the Virgin Mary and stuff and it's very weird how he transitions suddenly to that but anyway there's clearly a lot of concern about women around this time and their uh knowledge of herbs and drugs and they're either the women might be being drugged and releasing secrets of their husbands to these fake gods or they might be drugging their husbands or doing a lot of stuff it just goes on and on really every time somebody quotes
Josephus an angel farts in your face that's fantastic I love that it works every time hey don't forget the herods guys don't forget the herods because you can do this dance with the herods um one of the what are the women priestesses involved in remember these are the dudes who are supporting Jesus through the back door and Luke right the group that's financially supporting him is connected to Herod directly directly
Connected to Herod yeah nobody ever makes a big deal because nobody cares about Salome anymore what about Solomon what the hell is she doing she's a Phoenician princess for gonna sakes that's what hurt that's work that's where her background is I want to bring it back to what you were talking about with the sacred theater real quick because Aristophanes he brings in the women to the chorus that's not secret or anything right I mean we all know that right yeah but there's some illusions that it
May not have actually been women as the actual chorus this is what a lot of these Scholars are arguing but you're but within the play itself it's it's made known that they're meant to be women right and it's really interesting that these women are identifying Dionysus as the Morning Star you know I love that stuff yeah that's a big one uh so he has a play called the assembly woman and it's a it's a it's a satire I mean I pull up the Wikipedia just so you
Can see it uh it's a satire about what what would happen if women took control of the Senate so if Plato talks about this one a lot yeah yeah yeah yeah this is how exactly exactly and but like it says that it says right here I mean I'm looking at Wikipedia I don't know where the sources because Athenian women did the court so maybe they're saying that men play that role as women in the chorus is that what they're saying they're crazy as you see and the thesma
Foreign those things that are run by the women they're given a a an idea you as the audience you're given the idea that there's going to be lots of drunken revelry right right in in these rights and no they have a right to be going through this so it's funny that we don't speak up for those we look at the portrayal and we say oh the exaggerated portrayal is one of a drunken woman who can't contain herself sexually right yeah but what is the actual ritual
Behind that why are they even using those terms and why are they saying this these groups of women they always lead to Aphrodite well yeah I was going to say I would I think it's fair to like look back with our modern sense of the world and say was wasn't perfect and there's there were some things that I would have did differently but that's we're talking thousands of years ago we got to give you have to take our modern glasses off for a second and put
Ourselves in there in their shoes for a give it like like seriously though like you gotta you can't just be well they didn't have women in the Senate so F them well it's like we did it we need to have like this kind of a nuanced opinion right and we need to as Scholars always be willing to revise that opinion as new evidence comes out absolutely it's like what I see when you study a lot of this is that like Gammon was talking about this earlier it used to be the old white
Men's club a lot of German white guys who are doing Classics and it had a very strong bias towards a certain perspective you know and then we've had sort of a backlash right where you had all these feminist writers and a lot of these more modern writers who are writing on these subjects and they're reevaluating and now we need to take a step back again and reevaluate that perspective you know sometimes the pendulum swings too far in the opposite direction as a result oh you know it's
Not it's this is just how these things happen we need to refine that image and get it and make it clearer you know that's all no I agree I agree I think um yeah that's my point was like we look back and we we try to compare everything to today and I think once you do that you're you're going to be in for a bad experience of the Ancients like sometimes it's better to just try to put yourself in that position of that time period because it's different context is different you know no that's really
Important because you you're a hundred percent right that we need to be trying we need to let go of this modern baggage right that we have and we need to try and imagine like these these are these ancient peoples are so much more connected to the natural world they're more connected to those people around them and they're not thinking of these things like we are so they're not a big problem of modern religious studies in general right and this is where a lot of this modern history is coming from is that it's over
Politicized you know in one way or another regard whether that's like feminism or what have you it just it's just a natural result of the of the of the telling of this history you know and we need to go like aminoy says go back more to the sources and say make less theories just to say we don't know think of that real quick let's go to the sources go to her out of test what does he say about the Spartan women they were treated exactly equal to the men they had the same they were separated don't get me wrong they
Separated the red and the women but they would give them the same training the same education the same everything it's even more intense than that because the women would be the land holders right and then they would be the ones who held political power the men were all invested in Warfare so the women controlled all of the day-to-day they were the power Brokers
Indian women Amazon so the world was just different back then we have to look at everything specifically if we're looking at a specific region specific decade and we can't just say the Greek world was this right I say what's this one city state among how many city-states and then what period yeah
That they use I'm sorry Gunk I'll stop short everybody knows that they use the uh scythian archers in Athens right as their police force remember among these tribes of scythians a woman has to kill three men in combat before she can marry when I say Mary I mean take a wife I mean excuse me look at that mental slip take a husband right uh imagine that imagine that Society stepping forward through time isn't that something a bunch of shaved headed tattooed freaks the one thing I want to add that everybody needs to remember is that these people are on drugs a ton of drugs
They're giving drugs to their babies hitting them right when they're born boom they're bombarding them with drugs and serious drugs stuff that is you know is going to show up on brain exams you know what I mean big stuff
Foreign that's a really good point it's something like I I one thing I really love like I've been reading uh Chris Bennett's new book and he talks a lot about the scythians and just like the sheer amount of cannabis it's it's not just that they were doing canvas but like all they're they're fumigating themselves in these ginormous Vapor Baths on The Daily you know like it so even if their weed was was less potent than ours is now like come on they're ingesting it they're breathing it
They're wearing it it's like the essential part of their every aspect of their daily life like it's insane you also gotta and so another thing I want to throw into this they're sort of remind people like that this world is not as we can't we can't lump the pre-christian world in with the Christian world it's like they had uh acceptance for homosexuality even though they didn't even have a word for that it just was love like if a man loved another man they have you have you have
Uh um women women poets uh um what's her name strafo
Who is called the tenth Muse yeah and she's from a place called uh lesbian Lesbos and one of the other that's why the word lesbian even comes from there because they have a story of two women in love from Lesbos so you get the lesbian comes from that so like this is where a lot of these I a lot of this like natural ways of Life come out of the Greek world like we don't think about that and this is what I think happened this is my personal hypothesis why were the Greeks like this why are they coming
Up with computers and why are they coming up with mathematics and amazing ways to speak with language and alphabets and why are they so accepting of people why are there all these ideas that we see today we see them back in this time period and they just disappear in the Middle Ages why is that and I thought about this for I've been thinking about this for a long time this is what I think right now they had representation in Media we're like what's media it's not a modern team this is what I mean by that so today we're
Starting to see in me in in the world of film we're starting to see new characters that represent minority people and as a result of that people in those spaces have a hero to look up to and it helps them it gives them a better psyche gives them better attachment to the world makes them feel purpose in the ancient world when you have gods and goddesses of different colors and flavors you have Dionysus you have Apollo you have Artemis you have a Demeter you have all these different
Gods and goddesses they're different characters they do different things they represent different people and people have a hero to look up to all of a sudden they have purpose so I think we lost that and all of a sudden all you have is Jesus and Mary and the father to look up to is like some sort of image to like imitate those are the only three images you have to imitate there's only three only three people are gonna be attached to the world and feel purpose it's so
Important to have that representation 100 agreeing you know like it's it's it's everywhere right when you think about um when you just think about how like the ancient world is just more connected I think the biggest thing you can even take it a step further it's the connection to Nature right what produces all of this variety what produces this image it's this love and embracing of the natural environment because when you Embrace nature you see change and diversity all around you constantly you know they're not producing vegetables
For agriculture right they're they're not throwing away the ugly ones they're just eating it and they're embracing all this wild variety of everything you know that's the world they exist in so when they see something that's different they talk about it they don't just exclude it they incorporate it right like what blows my mind is like we're talking about all these modern genders right like this becomes this whole big debate about all these modern go back to the Greek they got words for all of this gynamorph Andrew morph you know all of these and they're represented and they
Hate they're talking about them all and they deified
That's the goddess that's a god they don't they don't they they put it up on a pedestal and say you should worship this image you should be like this image this is a good image to be like you understand like like justice or paraminities said the Justice should be a God because Justice is it's important so you get the goddess Justice out of that you get the goddess Nike Victory we need Victory you have to have all these modes to look up to as an image because that image makes you connect to that image
And then make it make it a realization in the world just just to put this into full perspective they have an image for all images that's what pan is right so even when they fall short and something doesn't meet the purview they get included in that image isn't that right that Pam's image becomes the devil's image
Representation uh you know wrench I was reading chapter two of the book um Bennett's book and he there is representation for the trans Priests of ancient times he knows so much about this can you can you tell me a little bit about that sure well I mean they had they had all the cadesha or kadesha male
Prostitutes working in the tent is that what you're referring to or I saw that too I was surprised and that that deals with ancient Israel I didn't know that oh wow yeah so I mean
They were they had their own rights and uh theatrical aspects to it but the thing is with the Greeks especially their these plays are making the unconscious conscious for everybody to see in the play and so when the abrahamic religions take over with their limited symbol you know views of women and gender and or it's just so totalitarian in general they're not just stopping religion they're
Preventing you from becoming conscious of your unconscious and they're changing society that way as a form of Mind Control they're not it's not Neil had a great point where he said you know they don't have Role Models anymore and that's very conscious but we even a straight CIS man has the anima within them or you know nobody is purely one
There's there's different all the gods are within all people and so uh we all have to meet them to know ourselves and so when they when they limit the pantheon ridiculously or put it into that abrahamic context they're shutting people off from their own minds and unconscious but they're also preventing the catharsis of the polis and the purification they're not dealing with the sins they're they're just promoting ignorance actually and that kind of beg for forgiveness that's all you're going to get for catharsis is begging for forgiveness
And you're not actually going to learn a lesson from it so it's it's even when they stress that begging that begging becomes like the only Point like you can do nothing but to be in anything but that state of begging is to be in sin that's so far some of these take it you know yeah if you stop being fearful of God then you're in sin so uh that's such a traumatic way to deal with life think about it yes you have to be priced you have to take on everyone's sins it
Does anything that goes wrong in the world you're responsible for that's the fundamentally what a lot of these Mystics are getting to right you see this in a lot of like read the monastic literature when these people are literally taking on the physical wounds of the world through the wounds of Christ as the Stigmata it's the most depressing disgusting [\\h__\\h] like get go out [\\h__\\h] side and get laid like come on and then you wonder why those those types of people have this bitter resentment of the world as evil
The higher up you are on the Mystic chain the more bitter the more hatred of the world you have the world is evil Elijah hated the world so do I you know what I mean well you said it right it's a traumatic way to live your life and that's the whole point and if you ever actually admit that you're traumatized well then you're not properly scared you're you're talking back to God right you're calling him out on his abusive Behavior so you're not they can't even
Do that so they can just admit they're scared and that everybody should be scared but they can't question why they're scared or what kind of God is this a real God if he's ruling through fear like this as a terrorist not really but one thing that's really awesome um Ammon and Chewie got me to read this book or well I'm still reading it but it's called the the city of ladies by Christine De Paisan and in it she talks a lot about all of this stuff in the representation of women and how men
Perceive women and one that really stood out to me was because I love poetry is the poet Ovid and Lady reason eviscerates Ovid because Ovid we know was a Lech he went around and was a was sleeping with all kinds of women and it got him syphilis and he lost a limb and he gets banished from a city only to get invited back and then to keep [\\h__\\h] around with people and get his testicles removed because he couldn't stop doing it and that's when he starts writing
About all his hatred for women when he's an old bitter man who had been cast traded you know he's on the front they send him up to the to the black seed right for his punishment when he gets yes he wrote he wrote a poem on his way there in the boat and he said and there was a storm that boat and he thought the boat was going to sink and he's begging the gods I'm sorry tell Caesar to let me live like he's looking up at the Gods like
There's Caesar and Zeus up there like what the like they thought that and that's a I like that verse because it shows you and that point in time how Central Caesar was to Roman religion Caesar was the he was the Christ of that time he was the he was the dying and Rising God of that period before Jesus he was I don't remember him getting castrated what tell me a little bit about his castration that's what I need to find I need to find this that was what
Christine De Paisan says happens to him you know they eventually he his license he gets invited this is so I'm only quoting that book but in the book she says that his fans bring him back to the city and he's still licentious and he sleeps around with someone's wife and as a result is castrated and that's when he writes his most scathing work against women but yeah right well it seems there's definitely like a you know depending on the period and the people there's definitely a culture wars within the Roman Empire
Itself between the more conservative types and the more libertine types and it was a pretty ongoing thing that uh the Christian Christianity was the full flowering of the prudes taking over and setting up their names yeah because first
Works that he does when he was young before metamorphosis was the love poems yeah it's not like that it's it's about the average woman in there what it was doing by bringing that up is that we see this kind of in-cell behavior all across history this is a constant thing of these kind of bitter men where you see these people who either they can't get laid or they get laid when they're young and then can't get laid when they're old and because of that loss of being able you know they
Can't connect with women because they don't think they're people and they can't connect with women because they're you know for whatever reason and then they develop this extreme resentment and want to attack women and make all other men hate women it's like something it happens time and time and time again like modern examples Andrew Tate you know wild yeah it's important for incels to normalize misogyny so that they don't look bad right and anybody who actually cares about women becomes a simp or whatever so it's it's a way of normalizing their own behavior and and then just pretending like gender roles
Are fixed and eternal and you know there's no individuality or spectrums or anything so they they need to put it into these very uh specific roles for people to conform to so that they can hide in the crowd normalize their abusive Behavior
So there's nowhere for the women to run to right I mean imagine imagine if you only had Zeus as an image nothing else imagine that was Society imagine what would come from that where you could just run around and just rape people and you know throw thunderbolts at like you have to have balancing out of certain images and certain characters and certain and like it's almost like Zeus is very similar to like Yahweh you know not just it's not a one-to-one comparison but like you could see how
Switching over to a monotheism where you only have this one father God and he is a certain way he acts certain way towards women he does this that you're gonna this Society is gonna be affected by that that's the head of the Pyramid of the role models that's the that's the highest the highest you can be is God that's perfect Perfection so you think Perfection is like is like you know laws that make women uh subject to men and like their property to men that's God
Saying that so it has to be right it has to be divine right look what the Christians did they took God and they transformed him into a literal physical man right and then that image got even more refined later in the Roman Empire where it became a white European man just look at the the incredible degradation that is that has had across the world everyone is trying to live up to that image and always comparing themselves to that image and anything that doesn't meet that image is ugly
Think about that you know what's ironic if I could say one thing is you're taught in school that the the Creator is a black woman you know we come from African women we're descended from African women that's what you're taught in science I thought you meant like okay I get what you're saying now but that's what Snappy just said that's arguably the worst thing that ever happened in world history was white Jesus because all of a sudden it became it became second nature for Europeans and Wealthy civil wealthy States and you
Know the French and the Spain Spanish and the German states and the you know the Holy Roman Empire and Britain and all of a sudden these people think that they are divinely divinely chosen by a God that looks like them and anything that doesn't look like them and that's it must be God that made them this way so I should be able to do what I want and subjugate them and make them force them to convert to my religion and take their land and say it's for the better
Like they thought they were doing good things when they were doing that they actually thought that so the the that image of what Snappy you don't even read I don't even think that what you just said is you you pinpointed the worst thing that ever happened in the world was the image of white jesus I think so I honestly think so honestly think so it leads to look what do we think are the greatest crimes Imperials
Yeah yeah so Jesus is The Shield that they use to hide behind to justify everything and what do Christians do when they make drama they make The Passion of the Christ and they turn it into a snuff film or you know you gotta and it's an anti-semite Semitic play and you know it's all about the torture of Jesus and it's like this isn't about teaching anybody anything it's just making people feel guilty or you know it's it's total
Black magic really right they they inverted the drought the effect of drama that the Greeks had and uh used it for the purposes of Mind Control you don't repress the unconscious and everything else so see it in its most plain just go look at the requimento of 1513. okay this was a document that the Spanish conquistadors brought with them to the new world that they would shout at in Spanish to the indigenous people so we basically submit to Christ into the Virgin Mary or we will kill you and take
Your children and your women yeah because you're not a bad guy you're not a baptized Catholic or Christian I mean at that point it was it was Catholic conquistadors from Spain at that point you know the uh Henry's King Henry was king at that time that church didn't start yet but anyways um you're talking early 16th century this is the worst time period ever ever so you yeah we're fresh off the Inquisition and like you said when they come over to the new world they see
These people they call them Savages and they say that they don't get baptized they're they're not they're not even human they're they're animals so we can do whatever we want to them it's completely legal like the way I hunt uh um if like you know a hunt a pig is the same way I could hunt these people like like they think that way they're they're right they're they're brought up to think if you're not a baptized Christian you are not human and it's important like you referenced
It to you connected it to the Inquisition and that's important that we make that connection because the Europeans first had to cleanse and Purge themselves right they had to do this [\\h__\\h] all around themselves where they went around and they like what do you think caught like the Bubonic plague and all the plagues that happen around are a result of them purging all these women in this massive loss of science as a result of the church you know but that violence happens they have to do it to themselves before they can do it to the rest of the world you know
Wow
What a time that was it's just so it's just so wild to think about right like the the the insane amount of genocides that come out as a result of this monolithic way of thinking of this monotheism right this one universal male
Figure that we all have to Aspire to and just how many people were um were killed were X executed for a blasphemy laws and called and these people were called witches but that just means they were Pagan that just means they believed in something different they're executed for that [\\h__\\h] dude bird they were just sick or Autistic or disabled right just [\\h__\\h] crazy stuff I've cleaned it dude left hand crazy yeah
To back up what Neil was saying there like in in later times in the USA in other places uh black people could be enslaved because Genesis says that uh yeah Humanity has dominion over nature so black people weren't considered humans or they were even considered to be a hybrid of apes and and humans like that was the explanation for how black people originated According to some Christians so it was okay to enslave them because Genesis says that uh man has dominion over nature so they can dehumanize people and then justify whatever they want
Yeah and uh and that whole just the fact that they have black skin makes means they're evil because that's the only image they have of goodness is this white man so uh that's just how they're simple dualistic mind works if you look at like 16th century drawings of African people like the way they even the way they drew them was like what is that where did that come from it's like they've never even seen a black person before like they draw them all weird looking like like it's their racism was horrible in that time
My mind is we can go back to the Greeks and we have these beautiful images of the Nubians in the Ethiopians like how like how did how did this all get so distorted like what the freak happened
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You know what it is I I pinpointed it it's that when when they made Charlemagne the Holy Roman Emperor that's it the world that the world is going to change forever now you're putting all the power up in the north of these these Barbarian white people and I'm just joking but like that's like that's kind of what happened like you kind of you shift to the power up the Europe was in power from then forward from that time forward was Europe you know what I mean
And they don't and like I said Europe is up there and they your the Europeans were very very much separated from civilization for a long time and they had really distorted views on people in the south in the south southern places in Africa or or Arabia is you know what I mean yeah extreme isolation don't forget the uh if I can interject that the Romans and the Greeks both had aphrodite
Um they they both had a start right they both had Ishtar um there's a lot of the um when Christianity began to attack Venus they did it for a reason she was part of the control mechanisms of the state so um all of that people don't realize that but that you know again Julius Caesar is walking into the Temple of Venus genetics and he's offering a portrait of somebody who is it and this great event this is the soon to be deified right Julius Caesar he's uh it's a portrait of Medea what right oh wait and we think oh you know it's all
Entertainment right and circus no [\\h__\\h] no this sorry this is the reality and there's a link there between it if you don't have that Venus element that's why what's special about the Greeks they worship down Aphrodite man they've worshiped Aphrodite
Yeah and their words in their language are you can use one word to represent both the sexual act if you're a Christian you can call it fornication if that makes you feel better I'm parade you can call it whatever it works the same the same word is translated as to perform idolatry so to do the Pagan thing so there's not a distinction between the sex when I say these people are on drugs what kind of drugs are they on they're on sex drugs Avid has had so many he can't get an erection anymore
He writes about it wow what a problem it is but don't worry there's places you can go and there's people you can talk to and drugs you can get for anything right now many people are on drugs like widespread nobody has uh no I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna shut up but nobody has brought this up you Scholars out there shame on you they are all on drugs
Right no but you raise a really good point though is that the the the the the the worship of the idol and the projection of the image the crew you know when you're when you're seeing the image of the deity this is always described as an erotic experience it's through the power of arrows that you perceive the deity and they mean this in a sexual way right and like and it's very much the same when you go into like The Vedic in the Indian schools when you
See almost all of these so-called Pagan religions have the same understanding of this connection with this Divine form or image and it's an erotic one you know and I don't mean that in a limited sense of of just purely sexual but in this cosmogonic creation of the universe meaning of Minds kind of eroticism
Absolutely
You can't have life you can't create life without the Union as sexuality well I mean technically scientifically we can but we know that nature was designed for you know for that Union that what they call you know this um Orga or this uh you know this evil thing that should be only until you're married but like it's really the Nature's Way of creating more people or more whatever like would it be possible you know would it be possible Dion to reproduce and bring back the right of consuming the woman's fetus with her
Blood can we can we do that again is that they actually do it that's actual practice if you were to be uh reading some of these women's journals in modern times doctors in medullas I don't know if you know what a medulla is that's Midwifery Midwifery
Um they recommend eating the Placentia post-birth oh I've heard that actually yeah yeah it's a thing so it's nutritional is that what it is nutritional it gives it like a yep and in ancient times let's say if it was a miscarriage ah you still will do it why because you didn't want the Gin to get the the spirit you prefer that the family members take it and there'd be a a whole lot of nutritional value as well I'll just saying I'm being honest puppy rejuvenates your body in a lot of ways
Probably like adds a year or two to your life it's probably something you know people are always mocking these women who are doing it but they're they're getting it from somewhere like come on it's ridiculous right it ain't going away you know what I mean that's the that's the original mystery that's what that's why we start with Genesis um the rib you know it can it couldn't be what we see if we went to the birth at a hospital tonight and you'd see a a baby
Miraculously being born between somebody's legs but they had to switch that to a rib you know it's it's already there it ain't going away it's a cycle it's so holy and sacred it's what we're about that's the moment of conception it's also like these kind of sexual rights never go away there's always a revitalization right like I think about like right when you think they're gonna disappear like in the early turn of the modern Century who brings them back crowliness thermolites if you go to their what do you think they're doing at the at least maybe not the mainstream
Oto but there are some of those thalamites who are out there and they're eating cakes that are made of semen and Menzies and they're doing that as part of their Gnostic Mass you know now now I I will share a little dark element with you and I'll make it brief but in modern times if you go to abortion clinics which I do support a woman's right to do anything what I don't support is the abortion clinics selling those fetuses or abortions or um foreskins or whatever whatever they
Can get their hands on to pharmaceutical companies for stem cells and making millions and millions and millions of dollars because that's what's happening it's just a it's just a dark side of History so we know that these elements have nutritional value if they're worth millions of dollars if this is what pharmaceutical Industries want so in ancient times it would make sense eat the Placentia
How about the abortion itself if we were to induce a chemical abortion um in Antiquity right we get everything together we've got all of the plants that we need it's going to be a local we'll use a pessary AS application we'll put it in insert it and it will irritate the lining of the uterus and the uterus will Slough off right and they'll call these one of the flow drugs right the ones that increases the flow that's all you got to do and but then you can take that and consume
That as the um communion and it kicks you up to that higher Uranus but you got to go through Aphrodite right I want to ask you about Ammon because I was reading okay when we're looking at this just to take it back to theater when we're looking at the cult of asclepius right where they're performing all of these operations is a medical feeder right it is an actual theater and it still exists it's one of the most sonically powerful places as Dion was showing that we even
Know of and the world is writing that they were doing birthing operations performing and showing midwives how to perform things like abortions in the theater there yeah I yeah and depending on the way you go I mean I went there I was there in that place epidurus no pergamum
Oh they're so bad and yeah oh God because Galen was there and he was one of the he was the chief physician for a while um and they did a lot of trauma too don't take that away from them they did a ton of traumas surgery so I mean they were good man these people were good and they knew what they were doing and um still um they're fumigating people right they're fumigating I think pergamom arguably more
More interesting than than Alexandria as far as their library and all this all the all the temples they have there all the like how advanced program people don't talk about people always talk about Alexandria Alexandria Rome Rome pergamon was where it was at where you get a lot of weird conspiracies with pergamon because there's other there's all this satanic imagery that's associated with them and then there's that large Jewish population there yeah because and that because you're right there was a Jewish population there there's a lot of there
Was a lot of um hip cysterians there but they also had a giant Altar for his Amon Zeus horn Zeus it was in the middle of pergamon it was the bridge over there that was see the cube people go crazy over that stuff I love the altar of Satan and then some people call it the synagogue of Satan because of the Jews that were there but it was it was horrendom on it was that's all it was it was it was you know it was oh oh for sure it's it's just
Wild I just it's just one of these places I wish they would do some serious scholarship because anytime I've tried to look you wind up get you have to spend hours sifting through nonsense you know Augustus is dedicated to Lux Giant
Alters and in his uh late late in his life and these were like huge projects very very well crafted by the best possible people that can do this and one of them was in Rome obviously the other one paragamom so the tells you program mom is important and by the way uh hair out every time my hair out earlier Herod builds that Temple that everyone's wailing at right now but that was funded by Augustus and not only that Herod built two temples to Augustus that are still there
Yeah I love that Augustus was the like he ship he built they said he dedicated over 80 temples just in Rome so imagine how many temples were dedicated in that first century first century BC first century everything was changing in that time period what's your thought on Augustus Ammon is he the real architect of the Empire right or is he just some kind of drug-fueled sex person like crazed person like you get so much mixed accounts of him what's going on in the middle go ahead
For all my time and study of the topic I must conclude Augustus was a junkie yeah
Totally I've got his formula I know what he was on and that guy was at least that guy was at least somewhere somewhere in the euphoric world of that morphine somewhere in that you've not kicked up to the acetylated right morphine but to the uh to just the regular natural morphine that's out there we don't give it our kids right when we have earaches and stuff give your baby some some opium right well he was fond of a daily formula that included opium and that's not odd because there are other Emperors
On it too so junkie Augustus was constantly in a in a zone of I wouldn't say Bliss but I would say narcotism did you know so do you think he was enacting Caesar's will or do you think it was his will to be to create the the whole seat of the Empire because there's that's such a contested point and I'm always wondering well number one well here let me let me let me jump back a little bit before before he became before he beat Mark Anthony because you had that you had
That second triumphant for a little while so there's no so it wasn't an Empire yet we're talking like 20-year span it took for this to happen so I don't know if we could say with Caesar's will it's basically his own will because this is way later when this all happens but Anthony was a he was was running around telling everybody that the reason why
Octavian got the name Julius Caesar from adoption was because he was he was his Ganymede he says that he says that this is and this is isn't this wildest shocking when I read this if you don't believe me it's instantaneous I'll pull it up right now if you want wait wait could you define Ganymede for us Mark Anthony said that the reason why Octavian got adopted by Caesar and gave given his name and put the win put his name in his will is because he was his
That was his uh his P his his boy his his sex boy his sex I'm not kidding I'm not making it right instantaneous no no I want to know what is a sex boy I would like to know historically so so this is what else to Tonya says sootonia says that Octavian shaved his legs it was very feminine and think about this he has one child when he was 21 years old he had a child he never had a child ever again the rest of his life has no children to air him
Just one one daughter when he was young and then he gets initiated into all these mystery cults this it's possible he might have got initiated into the great mother because he was so obsessed he was so obsessed with being initiated into all these mystery calls he went to ellusini Mysteries three times and that he was the high priest of Mars he was the high priest of Venus he was a high priest he was the high priest of everything you could think of and then he go and so like and then you then he
Factor that in with like what suetonius is saying about him being a lover of Caesar and like you you all of us on this panel no that's not that's not that's normal like this is not like out of the out of this is not crazy for an old man to have a a young boy as a lover this this was happening all over the world back then but someone right now who is rotten his might be like what you talk you're saying Augustus was this was Caesar's boyfriend well that's what
Sertonia says I'm not saying you should believe what about that to me is more so the age and the adoption because you usually you don't see the adopted father going into a pederastic relationship right it's more of a it's more of like a work thing you know until he's gone he's in it's in the will to adopt him so he's not it's not like he adopts them and then he's his son okay okay right it was he it was just a nephew or something and then he dies he
Writes his will he gets killed in that will I give up my name to Octavian he from now I want to be known as Gaius Julius Caesar so he becomes guys Julius Caesar isn't that crazy well he did drink if what you're saying is true he drank Caesar's cup you know so then I think he is definitely enacting Caesar's will I would say I'm gonna pull up that person I think it's the other way I think it's the other way with the boycup right that game yeah true that's
A serious figure though you know respect to the ganymedes that have been here and um have come before us right um these are people from whom the communion is taken directly and they've been altered for this and they come to us bringing it themselves they they did this voluntarily I mean this is fantastic look how the look how the Romans absorbed that system right absorb that um transition yeah I love it and everybody's reading about this with the Emperors and whatnot oh you know they dressed up as a woman
And did this and that and everybody's like oh my goodness right to us it's a big deal right but no no it's the right that's right one thing I wanted to ask you about Emma and taking things a little back to the theater was I noticed that when we look at the Greek Theater It's associated with The Cult of Dionysus but then when we moved to the Coliseum becomes associated with The Cult of Saturn you know and then it all becomes about the capital and the violence what do you think is going on there
Yeah I think that's a debate that in Classics just through my years of Classics they started out teaching everyone that the Arenas were slaughterhouses and that they were terrible and and yeah great okay then halfway through the business my career they started teaching oh well no it's the other way around actually not a lot of people were killed and and blah blah blah and so I thought my God man I know nothing because obviously I can't tell which one of these things it is and then I came across an ancient physician
Who is saying hey you can go collect all your goodies from the cadavers they leave outside of the circus right so if they're leaving cadavers for witches to harvest their parts um you know you know there's some kind of implicit understanding agreement I mean isn't this like is this like British gentleman getting the right to the cadavers I mean what's the difference whether you know whether you want to cut them up or use them in ceremony or whatever it is right those adrenal glands those are great
Right and I'm not saying you know this is this is uh uh any sort of conspiracy no you can use the human body right as a processor of drugs and they're just like you can pick things off the ground mushrooms or you can you know you can go grab some grass that grows next to some stream and everybody who does it you know spins around has a good time right and there's a whole society of people who are on this stuff 100 you know 24 7. and you got to imagine Augustus is on top of the he's got all the wealth
And all the access to all the dealers he's going to get whatever he wants but check this out though as a youth this is suetonius life of Augustus as a youth he was reproached with various sexual improprieties sexist Pompeii taunted him with the charge of effemancy effemancy while Mark Anthony accused him of unnatural relations with Julius Caesar as the price of his adoption and Lucius Antonius claimed that Not only was the accusation true which look we have another source saying not only is this an excitation true but also that he submitted to all this Heritage in Spain
For 300 gold three 3 000 gold pieces that he used to soften the hairs on his legs by singing them with red hot Walnut shells let's talk about some drug stuff right there you know what I mean he's he's uh he's he's feminizing himself wow he's getting rid of his hair and then furthermore on the occasion remember I told you he got initiated all these occults on the occasion theater the following line said of a eunuch priest of kyberly striking a tambourine was loudly applauded as referring insulting
To Augustus and look at there was a there was a uh quote from the great mother about Augustus this is a this is from a um this is from a high priest of kaiboli that got a Oracle from the great mother and it was about Augustus and this is what it said see how this sodomite's finger rules the orb she's she's okay so that might sound like that might sound like it's like derogatory no no it's she's bragging she's saying look at my son on how he
Rules the world because he got initiated into me do you understand what I'm saying yeah no no no it's powerful right so what they're saying is that they managed to put their Ganymede onto the throne they made their Ganymede the emperor so this goes back to what what uh Ammon was saying earlier where he was saying that uh no the empire was actually part of this Cult of I believe you think think about this for a second the greatest emperor that ever lived
Who are the the 40-year successful Reign who Reigns in the packs for men at the Peace of Rome nothing's ever happened since then or like that ever in the world and he's a he's a eunuch of kivoli imagine imagine that and like so like it's kind of crazy to think about that I'm not surprised but it's it's amazing it's what's upsetting is that we've we've denied this kind of History you know that no one is even like you have two sources talking about that and a priestess and you're the first I've
Heard plenty of people saying he was gay I've never heard anyone not in any modern adaptation or play or anything depict Octavius as in love with Caesar and Caesar right out of all people it's Caesar Caesar and Augustus in a relation in a sexual relationship whoa
I mean it makes sense all this all is like all these like uh these people today who are who like uh well also isn't Caesar pontific Maximus isn't he already involved in these rights anyways of Venus
Right and Jupiter but but most importantly he's the high priest of Venus because this is where those rights this is where the those rights would be you know you see how they kept their eye on the Morning Star Snappy they kept their eye the morning star and it guided them yeah gorgeous the power of Rome bringing back yeah they're on the coins of Rome you look up coin of Caesar you get the morning Stars and for all the people who are saying the women didn't have anything to do
With the with the who have what's going on when they imported her from the East when they brought her worship the barge got stuck and the river going up the Tiber and um they said oh my goodness and um it's probably because the Priestess get this probably because the Priestess is not a virgin but okay and the Priestess stepped up and said you know gave him the finger and jumped in front of the barge and took off her girdle yeah what's that took off her bra
And tied it to the barge and pulled it she said out loud if I if I am not a virgin you know don't let me bring you here great mother and she if I pulled him pulled it yeah it started moving they was like yeah and every time I think a girdle I just think of cross-dressing Jesus in Revelation you know exactly look at this coin look at this coin right here you got the morning you got the temple you got Caesar he's holding his lair he's holding his uh
Auger staff the toga and then you got the morning star on top that's Lucifer baby right there if you let Lucifer guide your nation you're going to be like think about it how successful was the Roman Empire in the beginning when they had Lucifer as their boom and all of a sudden they get rid of that and now they fall it's inherent in the physics of the system the way that you know you're fighting against it is when you start taking people who are in transition and putting them into prison the Greeks
Understood that too it's when you jail Dionysus that too bad Dion isn't here anymore because he was showing us some of these old ugaritic and Sumerian texts where they were talking about this and at the like some of the we're talking some of the oldest text we have and they're referencing how basically they don't use this word but trans people are going to be persecuted and they're going to be cast out of the house but at the same time are going to be held Aloft by the goddess and that when they get cast out that this is a
Sign that these the the the the of like end time kind of [\\h__\\h] so it's kind of wild you know it's an ongoing theme that we see right the persecution of these kind of minorities is always a sign of extremification right
It's something that has to be purged from the polis if the police is going to continue to function right you have to accept um the crossover sorry you're staring the great mother in the face right it trumps it trumps Nazism all the time right that great mother you can't you can't get bit by her right so yeah Oracle in 204 let's let's put ourselves in the time period of 204 BCE what was happening then you got the seleucids you got the ptolemies you got Macedonia okay Rome
Was just a little tiny Republic they're not that big yet they're getting thought they're getting fought by the carthaginians on one side they're getting fought by goth or uh Galls in the north they're getting fought by macedonians on on the west or on the East they're they're screwed they're done for it what are they gonna do what so they get an oracle from The Sibling oracles the Sybil says you know want to be you want to be the king of the world go and get my go and get my statue of great mother from phrygia and bring it
To Rome and they're all right they vote they go and find the Statue of the great mother they bring it to Rome and then within a hundred years Rome is the Rome owns the whole Mediterranean world and and that's and then you get Augustus who in this source that we just read was literally initiated in the great mother so that great mother has that I don't know what it is but like all these people always want to compare but who had God on their side was it the Muslims
Was it the was it the Christians who did better in the uh in the in these um in these Crusades well the Christians kind of got beat but the Muslims didn't do that great either so you can't really say who were the god in favor well they both kind of beat each other up but like if you're gonna make that argument you can actually make that argument for great mother Grant whoever had great mother wins like tell me that we do have though right like you can't you have to acknowledge the greatest genocide the world has ever seen which is this
Purgation of women that comes as a result of the christianization of Rome and that goes on we're talking from like 200 A.D until 1500 A.D after they lose the great mother yeah but we still but think about that though is that uh the great mother does get brought low where like I mean she's always there in the background but like point though this is a really important thing though I think it's like we're talking about the rights of the mother revolutionizing the state we don't see
Anything like that in our modern society that's my point it's like when they stop having the great mother in front of everything they lose it think about it like am I wrong though I mean you know I think it's a chemical Renaissance coming I think Gunk understands as well that it's a chemical Renaissance and to bring people to the place where they could understand the reality that we're talking about you're gonna have to this is the time this is the time right now to do it right under
The banner of the medicine you know this will heal people you'll be able to heal people this way right so um what how do we go forward I guess how do we bring that mother back Snappy that's what my question to you is I think it's pretty easy I mean we we need to number one is look to women and number two is try to embrace that femininity and understand it and celebrate it you want to find like Aphrodite is not hard she's the goddess of beauty and of love you want to find
You want you want to find her look for the beauty and look for love manifest those things in the world bring them down in a very literal sense right and you'll see like if you pay attention to female artists you'll see them doing this all the time
I want to show you this is this is mind-blowing yeah that's on the bottom okay Jeremiah he's talking to the people and they say he says as for the word you've spoken to us in the name of the Lord we will not listen to you huh instead we will do everything we vow to do we will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and offer drink offerings to her just as we our fathers are Kings and our officials did in the cities of Judah in the streets of Jerusalem at that time
We had plenty of food and good things and saw no disaster from the time that we stop burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her we lacked everything and have been perishing By The Sword and famine and this is supposed to be an art this is supposed to be like showing how evil they are like they're all a bunch of idolaters but look what happens after this do they ever stop getting beat down by the sword did their right help them no so we have it's only you
Only see evidence that the Queen of Heaven helps Society no but but Neil just going back to what I was saying before it's just like like you brought up right the big issue is this lack of perspective so how do we bring back the goddess is we incorporate more perspectives we we try to get to that all again we we re we gotta get rid of this narcissistic Duality and wretch you need to talk about this because this is such an important part of your prac
Well let me just uh preface by explaining pointing out that you know aside from the gender issues that we've been dealing with uh kibble a also was identified with a nanky and mother nature or natural law and so if you reject her then you reject you reject logic and reason and you know natural you're not going to have a very good civilization if you ignore natural law and you have contempt for it like Christians do so then you factor in the drugs and how she teaches the drug she
Actually cured uh Dionysus of his Insanity when he had his psychosis so but if we talk about in theogens generally I mean they're required well they're very useful for uh increasing Consciousness so you reject her you you reject Consciousness and the search for Consciousness so yeah your civilization is going to destroy itself in a narcissistic Fury exactly that hates uh women you know that's not going to be healthy for anybody even the men and so
It's only a matter of time before it implodes in this Death Wish and uh that's it it's not only that uh psilocybin has been shown to be the best medicine for obsessive compulsive disorder so you have these dualistic authoritarians who
Hate sex running around uh fighting anybody who knows about the entheogens that can overcome the OCD and so it's it's just a it's not at all surprising that such a death cult will eventually destroy itself and if it doesn't externalize its shadow you know constantly it will anyway so the only way they manage to keep going is by finding new victims or new new lands to conquer to uh project the devil onto right so
Their their OCD will always look for that external scapegoat because they can't ever look at themselves because that would be risking damnation and doubt you know by doubting their their right tyrannical it's always the same game but a slightly different version of it or it's a slightly changing variation right in the World War II it was Jewish people right now it's trans people in the 70s it was queer people right like they just recycle it out a few months ago everyone was yelling about critical race Theory
All of a sudden that's gone no one gives a [\\h__\\h] about that now everyone's oh Trans people you know because it's all about having these it doesn't matter what the enemy is it's about we have this perfect cell right that operates in perfect unity and everyone knows their place and the problem is the parasitic other and we need to expel the parasitic other from the cell that's all fascists think about but the problem is that is not natural it's not reality it is such it's so devoid of reason you know like
It's mind-boggling yeah and so if you can't accept that trans people are also part of Nature and except that that image is at least one aspect of nature then you're going to reject the god or you're going to reject kibble a and all of her teaching and that means that has so many different indirect implications like I was saying about natural law everything that that image represents gets rejected in the process and there's a whole lot there that's actually the symbol of unity so or totality so you you reject that you
Actually reject the monad that or the Oneness of nature so he he goes crazy
Right when we look at these Mysteries right especially like if you're looking at the orphic and the dionysian Mysteries they're about understanding and accepting and revilifying life right you have to embrace the all you have to experience death you have to experience being ripped apart and reassembled again this is a constant theme over and over and over because they understood the cycle of the natural world how things are decaying and reassembling and reborn Anew Dionysus is the vine and you consume the vine you kill him but then he's reborn Anew as a mushroom or something else right that's the magic
And we all understand it but for whatever reason we don't want to deal with it we don't want to face that this life is not permanent can never be permanent there is no eternal life that is a lie there's only the cycle and we can learn to see outside of time and embrace that cycle and embrace that change that's what the Mysteries offer connection to the Natural world to embrace the cycle of life and death right yeah and drama did provide a relatively safe space for the spectators to deal
With their internal uh conflicts and face their unconscious or their shadow and but they didn't have to necessarily be put on the spot and become eunuch or you know a straight CIS man can can get in touch with that aspect of the psychology without having to go through the whole transition or whatever so when you when you just wipe it out then then it becomes totally unconscious and even vilified so
Because because the people will always repress their Shadow if they're given that if they're encouraged to do so they're going to happily go along with that so instead of now we you know the Greeks made it a law that you couldn't shrink from controversy and now we're living in the exact opposite and what do we have now I keep thinking about this right like at the heart of the Pagan experience we're talking about is this erotic realization of the Divine through the image okay if you're a straight man
How are you supposed to do that with Jesus you can hear it right are you supposed to have an erotic relationship with Christ like it's not gonna work for you guys you guys can you know it's already denied to you the Pagan perspective has room for everyone it's not just for you know for the minorities out there you know I hear you can get that though through you know a priest people have gotten that historically through a priest they found that through an initiation that's performed you know
What you and I call pedophilia or you know um child rape right that comes through that priesthood so doesn't it make sense that I mean it's almost like hey that's scientifically what I would expect under those circumstances I mean it kind of only makes sense doesn't it
Right well and if you I'm sorry if I can add if I can add and um if you think for a minute about Jesus and his Ganymede that he was with in the garden when he got caught um you know it's uh you can see how the whole thing comes together I mean at what point do we say look this is you realize the cult of Sibley has to do with the initiation of the young male right into the feminine via sexuality
Right and yeah it involves castration but it also involves um sexuality right it's a female with a younger male right so you know technically that's um pederastic right what is the value so my question is what is the value of that inherent pederosity of the mystery that keeps Society flourishing
What is it from the great mother that is pederastic that keeps us alive
Well just think about the relationship we all have with our own mothers you know like your mother is the if we're being 100 honest the mother is the real one who teaches and raises the children you know the father helps but it's the mother who who fun on most situations right you know you come out of her you have that direct relationship with her that's a deep education you know if you can extend that same kind of education you know in in in in in the mystery
Right like I think there's something really powerful there I try to think of how I thought of the mother when and when I was at that age where the mother would have her Attis right we're talking about Augustus doing this right so at the time that the mother would have her at us and it would be sexual and the closest I can get is right there where everybody is in junior high right and that mother that female figure
Is becoming at that transition is becoming that sexual object and the natural teaching right hence pederacy right it means teaching he's teaching the children I mean um the natural action of that is being used you're telling me to keep Society Running without people going
Bananas and killing each other yeah turns out that's what it is we have an arena right you better stop what you're doing you're going to go to the arena right and we can all watch knowing that these criminals who would take us so far Upstream that they would deny the mother we know that that's not how Rome flourishes we're children of Venus and that's not how Rome flourishes I mean I think that's gorgeous I don't know about I'll stop I'll stop
[Music]
No no I just keep thinking about how right like there is this issue in our society right now especially that one that I'm that's become very highlighted that I'm very aware of is this this complete not a complete separation but like the Sexes are so opposed to each other and we have such little understanding of each other and there's such a little communication going on in how to understand and how to connect and how we're supposed to love each other and I mean this sexually I mean this intimately I mean this in in all of the various ways you know and there's
There's a serious lack of this understanding and this engagement you know where people don't even understand what consent is like it blows my mind that we even have to have these conversations you know but we do we do because people aren't being taught this when they're children
Yeah I agree is it just me or just to add some levity is it just me or um is there a natural propensity for somebody in that age group say junior high to suddenly want to Bone every teacher is that is that uh I mean is that a common phenomenon
I mean they talk about this constantly with the young men I keep thinking about in history you always have this thing where a lot of these canes talk about it when you get too many young men you have to go to war and get rid of them because they become a threat to your power they become a threat to your women they start causing crimes they start reaping they start causing issues if you don't have enough work then you gotta go get them killed and this is why especially in the ancient world why most of the wars even
Happen so we need to have a way to deal with this young testosterone it's just like there has to be like this is what sports are about right this is what a lot of these Mysteries and stuff come out of and because you need to deal with these people you need to provide them with the job and you and the release right
Yeah they used to have duels that would take care of a lot of them according to the culture but and there might be a place for that if it was you know there are rules to it and both people were willing whatever if violent people want to kill each other in a controlled way then I'm not going to miss them if they're gone but but if we don't if they if they just stick around then they make life miserable for everybody else it seems so I don't know what the exact solution is but uh we need to deal with that sexual frustration is is
That the root of that Death Wish I think and uh when you had you know men hogging all the sex slaves or whatever then that's going to cause a lot of envy and we're having multiple wives it creates Envy in a lot of you should learn something really important there because there's this key to this sexual frustration in this extreme religious action also because anytime we're seeing like a lot of these extreme sex rights right they're they're all about the orgasm or these extreme body mortification rights they're
Achieving the same kind of ecstasy at the end of the day they're going for the same source and it's that same destructive kind of violent expenditure of of wealth that's happening right sexual satisfaction
That's that orge right that is the right sexual satisfaction is the place you don't see people who are just floating in sexual satisfaction right who have any interest in going out and shooting things up or causing a problem if you're sexually satisfied in that zone right that's a place of Health you morons right I keep thinking about we used to have these priestesses right and these rights of Aphrodite where people could go and do sacred prostitution and then the wealth would be redistributed to the people right so this was a way to deal
With that anyone could come and get laid it didn't matter who you were right all you had to do was give an offering to the goddess which would then be shared right that's a healing transformative thing that's an outlet for these young men right something we're lacking you know yeah there's a market for it and if you try to suppress it you're just going to create a black market and then that money or energy is going to go into Mafia type uh Power structures so if uh so if you
Don't find a way to integrate uh sacred prostitution or or sex workers then your your Society is going to become increasingly neurotic and and what happens when these women start to take the power back I I saw this story's been it made me smile so like ear to ear was this uh woman who's a sex worker in the UK who was making so much money off only fans that she was able to buy public housing for her neighborhood provide public housing something the government couldn't do how incredible is that over images just selling images
Right like that's incredible that's ironic because it's like they're like oh these people doing only fans they're all evil they're all Wicked but like who's the one feeding the poor it's the ones that are doing you know what I mean like it's not you one the one that thinks all this stuff is wicked it's the one that you think is wicked she's the one feeding the poor and keep putting housing over them and you're not so who's with no so much for the idea of capitalist
Meritocracy when it's prostitutes right or when they're a famous sex worker right exactly but now they don't like now now the free Market's bad all of a sudden yeah yeah that's our Mary Magdalene don't don't miss that that's our Mary Magdalene Wing we've cut her out though of the project I think that's why pan died you know what I mean yeah oh what a shame what a shame wow no it's that's a really ominous thing to say but it's also an ominous note to leave on because I've been thinking about that quote ever since you said it in the last
Episode of Lady Babylon right are we entering an apocalyptic moment coming up right is nature going are we going to destroy nature is pan truly gonna die is that what we're facing is that what the Civil saw you know yeah well to think about you know and this this is the kind of existential dread that we're hitting right now people right we need to reincorporate all of these images we need to abandon dualism and narcissism and bring back perspective I just thought of something you just made you just made a really
Good point because Plutarch when he heard that Oracle from Apollo from the Priestess she said that the great the great God pain is dead who talks living in the late first early second century and he's seeing this giant urbanization happening around him maybe that's why maybe that's why pan died because all of a sudden there's all this they're cutting down all these trees and building all these new structures and right around this time period right maybe that's what happened what if it's a process what if she was singling both
The end of worship in that moment and the inevitable end of another cycle in the same breath could be you know could be either way it's ominous and we should be paying attention why is a single like pan is everything how can everything die what does that mean everything's not dead right now right maybe that's the beautiful thing about oracles because you can look at them and you can interpret them you could you might think you know what it means but it might be something else
Right but yeah okay so we're coming up on the two hour mark and Emin made me promise that I would let him free because he has plenty of work to do today so I just want us to wind down I know we veered way off topic from theater but it all connects to theater right and just to bring everything back around right the theater connects us to the Natural World it gives us the strength to face all of the insanity right to overcome the absurdity and the tragedy and I just want to give each of you guys a chance to to say some final
Words we'll start with you Neil what do you got to say well I think there's a lot we can look at in the in these texts that we can learn from and uh I I really do think that having these options
In our society having these images having these representations for people to look up to to inspire every any type of mindset that's out there any type of person everyone's different and everybody should have that representative
A hero to look up to you know well said interesting that's important right we need more perspectives how about you rich uh one thing that occurred to me is that well The Masks of theater are
Create are the image of the deity in a mobile you know in an acted out form and that's activating mirror neurons in the human brain and so when those images are censored and the drama is censored then due to neuroplasticity a child raised in that environment without those images is going to grow a different kind of brain they're they our human Minds were taught or evolved to learn through face-to-face images
Through these mirror neurons we take instruction that way and so they in a sense destroyed a form of Education when they destroyed drama and they changed how human brains work so as to be more
Taking in oral instruction from a book or reading the book later on when people were more literate but it's a totally different way of of learning that creates a different brain that's much more authoritarian and about taking Direction and memorizing things rather than understanding things and living things
So that's what happens when you lose drama it's much more important than it might seem at first right invigorate drama in your lives people well said rich and how about you Ammon any last words isn't it great to watch the drama unfold
Isn't it great to know that there's a singer behind this plot oh it's uh you have to have respect if you're able to look at that mother you've got to have respect for that whole system and if you don't that's what the purification is for right oh God love it love it amazing well thank you so much for tuning in to this week's witches Symposium and I hope we will see you all again next week make sure you go and like And subscribe to Neil and Gnostic informant and to Ammon
At ladybabylon 666 and Rich and I will be doing a new series coming up very shortly so stay tuned guys and hail Satan everyone hail Satan thanks snap yeah Yeah