people mumble or stutter a lot, causes errors in the youtube auto-transcript
people end sentences with e.g. "right?" a lot (may be nice to remove for readability)
youtube can't understand foreign-language words (e.g. Greek, Latin, etc), often resolves them incorrectly
youtube doesn't mark WHO is speaking, so you can't follow who said what.

Each one of these is worth the time in hand correction...

Section 1: 00:00:41,910 – 00:00:41,920

>> Heat up here.

Section 2: 00:00:41,920 – 00:00:58,285

[music]

Section 3: 00:01:55,109 – 00:02:27,430

>> Hello beautiful people and welcome to Drawing Down the Dragon. I'm Snappy and thank you for joining me for our Inside the Soma Library special. I'm joined here by my dear friends Subatomic Borie and Melina. How's it going guys? It's great. Thanks for having us. >> Yeah, great to be here with you all. So, uh, Subatomic, amazing. Great to have you, Bory. Amazing. Uh, I think Maddie just accidentally jumped off. Oh, here she is. She's back again. So, hey, Maddie, how's it going? >> My phone.

Section 4: 00:02:27,440 – 00:03:01,030

>> No worries. No worries. >> So, I'm really excited to be here with you guys. We're going to be talking and discussing um the Soma library which is a project that you uh three had started along with the ion and some other people from the congregation and this has been a project to document transcribe and to continue to promote the work of Dr. Ammon Hillman. So subatomic why don't you introduce yourself and introduce the Soma library to the audience and tell us a little bit about what you guys have

Section 5: 00:03:01,040 – 00:03:37,509

Been up to. Yeah, sure. Thank you. Yeah. So, the theme I want to bring here is to be able to capture Dr. Hillman's source work and make it examinable, right? We're like a school study group, but also documentarians or textbook writers sending previews of chapters out to students to try out, right? There's a lot more of us than those on the call here. um you know contributing sources and writing and ideas and questions and sharing the info out um you know but it's a small group of hardworking

Section 6: 00:03:37,519 – 00:04:08,149

Individuals many of whom have taken the four-week intensive many of whom have studied the Greek before that right a lot of these people even maybe took almonds uh like three or four years ago Greek course um you know and I know he's been doing that over the years as well right um so many of whom have been verifying the sources for themselves already before joining forces here, right? Um, so we're kind of like a group of nerds study group type of thing. Um, trying to layer this all out and make it

Section 7: 00:04:08,159 – 00:04:42,790

Clear here. We get to the roots of the events leading up to the so-called Christian eraser and kick off of the dark ages and simultaneously we get sharp on human consciousness and mystical experiences and the foundations of religion, right? Or at least we get to see the Greek version of that. Um, we get to understand Helenic religion not as a myth or mere fairy tale but inverted right as a priestly history with foundation grounded in the real of that mystical experience. Uh, our ancestors weren't just going through the motions like the later church became.

Section 8: 00:04:42,800 – 00:05:14,150

Our ancestors were having mystical experiences and ones that they experienced themselves. Right? There's something interesting there. So, when I was a kid, I always said that someday I'd really like to dig deep into the topic of the Greek gods, right? Someday, right? And I got older and here we are, except we're digging the ancient priesthood, which is way more interesting actually to my adult self now. Uh, and I think my kid self would be pretty excited about it, too. I think it's, you know, I just never fathomed

Section 9: 00:05:14,160 – 00:05:35,270

Reading the myths back when I was a kid, right? So, in a way, I'm fulfilling my dream and even deeper than I thought I'd ever been able to, right? Um, so there's a whole world beneath the myths. There's a human created structure created by ancient priesthood, right? Let that sink in. But they've discovered

Section 10: 00:05:35,280 – 00:06:07,510

Mysteries, right? So, what is all that? It's a mystery. Ha. Um, you know, so let's start writing about it. Um, but when I started watching Lady Babylon, I couldn't keep up. I had to take notes that to really understand and to see the chains of evidence, right? I had to I had to start writing some things. So, I thought this would be perfect to share with others and bring some others in together to help with the research and writing and sharing out of the work. And the intention is to fully research the findings and make the implications clear

Section 11: 00:06:07,520 – 00:06:33,649

And to show the chains of evidence beneath those implications. And we got to back them up, right? you know, but there's some core implications, but then there's like a whole world of helenic thought that, you know, is beautiful and it's sometimes hairy and interesting, Right? Even if maybe somebody in their lens wouldn't call it beautiful, it's it's super interesting. So, like let's

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[laughter]

Section 13: 00:06:34,560 – 00:07:03,350

Right so anyway, long- winded. Um, I'd like to hand the torch over to Mad Elena next and then Bori after that and I'd like to hear what what you all think. Uh, so my library is >> beautifully said. Thank you so much. >> Thanks. >> Yeah, Maddie, if you're there or uh Borie, if you want to take over. Um, yeah. >> Yeah. Um, you know, the I found the Soma library um

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After I'd already been watching Lady Babylon for a little while and I was taking like notes here and there. Um, but I found the the Facebook group and I I just messaged the mods and I didn't know anybody in congregation at all except for Cruz. Um, and we followed each other on Instagram and stuff and he was making some videos and I was like, I am I was still, you know, I not sure if I was going to share publicly and stuff and so I was like, you know, let me see if I

Section 15: 00:07:39,199 – 00:08:25,189

Can help build this um or help with writing notes at least and work here and there. And um yeah, it it ended up like growing really fast because I think we started it at least the Discord for it like last June and um the sub started that and there were a couple people and and we began, you know, making more connections with people and and people began contributing. But I [snorts] mean, subatomic really laid the foundation for everybody to understand how to map this out from a very analytical way. And I love that because that's I I was able to learn how

Section 16: 00:08:25,199 – 00:09:03,350

To um do that myself, too. And um it's a it's just the most awesome resource I think that we really have because I mean and we have so much work still to do. Um but yeah, ST library is a a beautiful space and um it has so many tools and I can't wait to like explore it. >> Wow. Amazing. Thank you so much, Maddie. Do you want to continue? Uh Cruz. >> Um yeah. Can you hear me? You sound great. >> Okay. So, yes. Um,

Section 17: 00:09:03,360 – 00:09:35,110

Uh, yeah, me and Maddie Malina connected uh a long time ago. Uh, uh, she started following me on Instagram. I followed her back and and then I found her on, uh, Tik Tok and then we just started following each other. Um, we didn't really say much to each other uh, for a few months. um [clears throat] uh until you know some some drama has

Section 18: 00:09:35,120 – 00:10:05,430

Started and uh then she messaged she messaged me like what's going on you know so I gave her the I gave her the whole spiel of what was what was happening but um but yeah before a little a little bit before that uh before me and Malena actually started to communicate Um I started getting messages from subatomic uh on Facebook and uh he had

Section 19: 00:10:05,440 – 00:10:23,750

Joined the fa uh a Facebook group that's up there. Um it's called the afterclass, Lady Babylon afterclass. um a brother named uh Brady had started it and um I joined like in 2024 like

Section 20: 00:10:23,760 – 00:10:48,550

Summer of 2024 and then Brady uh made me a mod of that uh Facebook group. Um, and you know, there's like a couple hundred people in there. And then all of a sudden I started getting uh these and um and he's just started to blow me away [laughter] because uh uh he was basically showing

Section 21: 00:10:48,560 – 00:11:30,550

Me stuff that uh I was expecting to see in that Facebook group, but I wasn't seeing. Um so uh the Facebook group uh it uh that afterclass group was like a lot of disconnect. There's people that are interested but they're not very connected to you know almond and and and what's going on right like it's like a inquisitive uh group like people are just trying to find out you know here uh but not very deep. Um, but >> yeah, we had this idea to go and make a dragons group, right? Dragons being like

Section 22: 00:11:30,560 – 00:11:53,269

The next level of people. >> That's exactly that's exactly. And yeah, >> right. I totally get that. >> That's exactly where I was going. Yeah. >> With the literature and the content. >> Yeah. like we needed to create a space uh that we can actually just drop this knowledge and um and that it we won't

Section 23: 00:11:53,279 – 00:12:27,910

You know like we didn't want to have like combat you know uh or anything. We wanted to have like a peaceful environment that we can share this information with people of like mind and and and be undisturbed, right? Like so we started this other this uh the dragons group the Facebook dragons group >> but um but uh you know then we were also participating in the in the subreddit the almond subreddit uh we were participating there

Section 24: 00:12:27,920 – 00:12:58,069

Um but he he subatomic gave me a link he and he he showed me the soma library he's like this is what I've been doing with all the notes that I've taking. [laughter] >> Yeah, I was I was so impressed. I am so impressed. >> I might have started with some PDFs. I had like six >> different transcripts and I was sharing them around with people, >> you know. [laughter] It's it's also just so wild to me because, you know, a little bit before you guys, you know, uh

Section 25: 00:12:58,079 – 00:13:29,509

You guys are kind of the second iteration of a of of this kind of idea. And I'm and you guys all know about this from the the the subreddit with ION. Too bad he isn't here because he could talk about some of this early history. But Ion as well as a guy Sular, there was Nathan. Um there was also Banvi and they were involved in this thing called the Museum. >> But the the Museum Discord wound up falling apart because uh Ammon, it's such a weird story. We won't get too

Section 26: 00:13:29,519 – 00:14:03,750

Derailed, but Evan had met this like shady billionaire guy who was trying to start a school with him. And then they wound up hitting into an ideological kind of thing where the guy was basically like, "If you guys can't drop the anti-Christian kind of lens, then we can't support you." And >> anyway, the whole project wind up falling apart. And it was really sad because so many people had spent time doing all of this um transcribing and really looking into it and I was afraid it all falling apart. And then meanwhile

Section 27: 00:14:03,760 – 00:14:39,110

Behind the scenes, you know, Subatomic is here and then you guys picked up the pieces and and and kept going. And then that's just so amazing. You know, >> it's wild because because like we we knew that there would be a certain point where we would have to bring this to, you know, to some to people like you from the first iteration, right? So, uh uh that's how uh Ion was uh he was active in the subreddit. So, we got to see him a lot more and uh we we kind of built a rapport with the ION. Um and

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Then that's how uh we brought him in uh to the summer library, right? And uh um and yeah, little by little uh you know, people like Wretch started coming in and uh uh I think it was uh Gambi was part was was in there for a little bit. >> Andy was a was an original guy too with with Omnia in the museum. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so yeah, we we knew that there would be a certain point in time where we would have to bring in the OGs,

Section 29: 00:15:12,079 – 00:15:35,829

Right? Because [laughter] so um but yeah, it's and it worked. It's it's it's working uh marvelously like the the the kind of uh I get blown away all the time like I you know, you guys know that I I don't really know this stuff, right? I'm I'm an artist. I'm a musician. like I'm not very like you

Section 30: 00:15:35,839 – 00:16:07,590

Know studious [laughter] in that in that sense right >> well that's one of the reasons to create this right I think there's a lot of people put it on they watch it they kind of note some things in their head but there's a lot of details that really fly by in these live streams you know even even lately um where there's maybe like a solid nugget in sort of the middle of the live stream there's a lot of junius action and a lot of excitement a lot of like you know pictures and stuff which

Section 31: 00:16:07,600 – 00:16:36,790

Is all fun but you know then the scholarly part I call it is like right in the middle and it's like 30 minutes or something right [laughter] where he's show some sources and like look the baptism uses the purple it's right here right and he shows it to you but then like after you're done watching you're like well wait who said that what time period like what was the significance why was that author significant and like there's so many more details, right? And so I found myself when I took notes,

Section 32: 00:16:36,800 – 00:17:00,310

>> I would ask myself all these same questions. And so then I I'd try to write them into the notes, right? And say, "Oh, Hill, here's the background and this one word thing that Ammon said and looked at the screen like knowingly that we're supposed to pick up on it and so I like figured it out. Here you guys go." Right. [laughter] Well, this is so much of the fun that we, you know, I mean, Emmen has kind of lightened up, I think, you know, and he's been a lot

Section 33: 00:17:00,320 – 00:17:27,029

More willing to expose knowledge as the seasons have gone on. But if you go back to the initial ones, especially, right, he would drop all of these like half the time he's talking in quotes. He's dropping all these nuggets. He's referencing these sources. So, like we were just like when the first time we heard it, we're just like, "What the heck? What is this? What is this? I got to go find what is that?" you know, so >> everyone kind of needs that road map though, you know.

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like a game, right? It's like serious serious gaming, [laughter] >> but it's it's also what's kind of needed because you one of the things that you know, we could talk about this in sort of like one of the things that people get frustrated with Ammon, but is part of the magical tradition in which he's coming out of is this idea of study. He can't tell you the answers. If he gives you the answers, then you won't understand the question. You have to you

Section 35: 00:17:58,640 – 00:18:29,350

Have to go through the experience of reading and coming to the conclusion yourself. Otherwise, he's doing you a disservice and he's hindering your progress as a student. And a lot of people get really frustrated with this because they want the answers. >> But, you know, um you got to find them. You got to go digging, you No, and the Soma library is a great resource if you want hints and and tricks [laughter] >> and and that's exactly >> that's kind of like what what I was getting at as well too because like you

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Know uh I don't I don't have that the type of resources you know I I have Google and I have AI right and then um I was trying to figure out the the Perseus Tus right I was trying to uh figure out the LSJ Right. Uh um and that took me months. It took me months to realize that the you know to search the the way to search up a word that there's a a key on the side uh with the with the English uh alphabet and the Greek alphabet and you know and that's

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How you do it. I was doing it wrong for like months and I was hitting brick walls you know. Um and so so what the Soma library is like a tool that somebody like me was like wow this is this is I didn't even know I was looking for this but this is but I found it right like it's right here now and I can use this um people don't really know that uh the search function is is super powerful on the Soma library like it has

Section 38: 00:19:38,000 – 00:20:17,110

A uh where you could search a a word or like I is it two or three words at a time, sub? >> Um, yeah, you can search multiple words if you kind of separate. >> Yeah, you Okay. Um, and or like a phrase, right? You can >> a literal phrase without >> Yep. and and um and it'll search through the website, >> but then it also has a function to where you could do a YouTube search and you click on you click on that and this whole list of the different Lady Babylon

Section 39: 00:20:17,120 – 00:20:33,909

Episodes where he says that word and then you and it's timestamped. you could go to to the exact point in the video where he's saying where he's saying it and what he when he's talking about it like that search

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Function in the Soma library is is a game changer man especially like for someone like me who I was I was looking to s sample Almond's words right I wanted to s sample his words and then put them to a beat and it made it so much easier to find [laughter] the word, you know, find the the right sample that I was looking for, but you know, you could use it for for real research, right? And uh digging into what he's saying. Um >> and and and he'll give you the source

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Right there, you know. Um and we have the sources there. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, let's let's pull up the website and and you can start taking us through a tour here, sub, and we can start seeing what what you got in store for us. >> Yeah, sure. >> Yeah. So, I mean, we've got the Soma library, right? It looks like a library. Looks like an ancient calculator library. So, just click this Lady Babylon here. Um, yeah. And we start out, you know, with an invocation.

Section 42: 00:21:36,320 – 00:22:09,350

Basically, it's like reveal yourself, deception, and fraud. That's the whole theme of Dr. Hillman is talking about deception and fraud and and trying to um preserve truth and justice and knowledge and liberty and freedom and all that type of stuff, right? And so, you know, in line with all of the helenic themes that we study, um you know, it felt appropriate to stick an invocation on the top to like, you know, get people on their toes and to look out for deception and fraud, right? Look out for the brothel sticking their finger up your

Section 43: 00:22:09,360 – 00:22:36,789

Butt. >> So, here we got the Lady Babylon page, right? Some of you have seen this before. Um, it's meant to be read kind of starting from the top and if you're a total newbie, don't know anything, right? We just start out with real basics. Who the heck is this? Right? How do we get here today? And then we start to kind of sink you into some of the topics, right? Um, real quick introduction is this media first Christ, right? Um, this was like one that came

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Out long time ago, few years ago, but it's still still pretty cool, right? And if you click it, you got a transcript, right? So, you don't even have to watch the video if you don't want to. Um, >> actually, I really like that particular video because it goes through Diodor Sichlus. Yeah. has a whole like version of Hecati where she's in charge >> of the uh >> you know of the Kulkians and and killing the foreigners who land on her shores.

Section 45: 00:23:06,159 – 00:23:36,149

It's a cool video. [laughter] >> Yeah, it tells a story, right? Um you know, we got a bio on Amen uh Dr. Hillman here and uh you know, stuff like pronunciation, different articles, what his beliefs are, right? He says, "Uh, I don't believe in anything." Right? I see what the texts say. I see what the evidence says. Blah blah blah blah blah. Right? So, you know, finally, is he a Satanist? He's like, "Fuck no. I can't stand these people." [laughter]

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>> On the other hand, >> this is where Dr. Hillman is amazing. Um, and you have to have an intellect to understand what is in his head at any given time. He might say the same word three times and mean three different things depending on the context and depending on how you're following his brain, right? He's got one of those kind of, >> you know, beautiful minds that kind of go off in all these directions and he time travels and he projects himself into different ancient authors and he's

Section 47: 00:24:04,240 – 00:24:38,789

He talks as if he was them and he says, you know, and so like sometimes when he says Satan, he's talking about the modern Christian Satanists. And sometimes when he says Satan, he's talking about uh Lucifer, the you know, phosphorus, the the Venus planet that rises, you know, at 4:00 a.m. in the morning, right? when you're doing it dawn right sometimes he's talking about just you know freedom >> and knowledge like >> Saturn Satnian right bak satanic chorus like there's so many different ways you can talk about what is Satan right and so

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>> No he's not a freaking modern Satanist right [laughter] >> we need to we need to >> fact he's the opposite of that right I mean he's a >> you know he bak you know whatever I don't even know I I don't think like he says he doesn't believe anything, right? He he believe he reads what's in the text. So, you know, hey, right? >> Interesting. So, yeah. Anyway, you can see all his books and stuff like that. >> Fun one down here is the you know, Tattoos. So, you can see what his tattoos are. >> I remember that, man. I remember when we were putting that together right there.

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[laughter]

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>> Yeah, >> that was like that was like a year ago >> out and gave me all these little, you know, pictures and stuff. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. We're trying to like straighten it out and read it and get the characters because you know they're not these are I think a trust. Yeah, these are Tresin characters. So we we're trying to write alphabet and stuff. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Fun stuff. >> The fun times. >> Common horrifies me. Yes, I should because your entire system of [\\h__\\h]

Section 51: 00:25:44,400 – 00:26:12,390

Is about to fall and you're watching it and there's nothing you can do. Nothing. Fantastic. >> Right. So, you get a little words of encouragement on here, too. Um, you know, you got an FAQ, you know, if you really care. Um, here, let's go back to the main page. Yeah. Anyway, so you know, if you don't know what the hell hail Satan is, we got a whole page on what is hail Satan. I don't know if you want to pause right now and we can go

Section 52: 00:26:12,400 – 00:26:43,590

Into it, but >> we should we should we should talk a little bit about it because this is something that I get all the time from people and people are constantly criticizing Ammon for you know because >> there is a similar okay so we first of all when we're talking about Satanism and most people understand Satanism in the modern context is either theologic anti-Christian Satanism which is utiliz izing the Christian mythos or it's Lean

Section 53: 00:26:43,600 – 00:27:23,269

Uh or other forms of atheistic Satanism where they're using that to be antagonistic. And Ammon does share the antagonism with with modern atheistic Satanism. Like they're they're both trying to antagonize the Christian. He's trying to do satire magic. He's trying to flip the polls and dawn. you know, it showed that the evil that the Christian is making fun of is an evil that it's all just ridiculous by wearing these trappings. But, you know, but by doing this, he's playing into a long tradition that has been established of antagonistic people towards Christianity

Section 54: 00:27:23,279 – 00:27:56,710

That people get confused by, you know. >> Yeah. Well, and there's this concept of the gadfly, too, which >> right, >> you know, in a in a really quick sense, it's like an attention getter, you know, it gets your attention really quick and makes you question what's going on. Right now, >> you know, some people might run the other way, but >> right, >> it's all a type of magical performance, right? this gadfly idea, you know, the quintessential gadfly would be Socrates. >> And Socrates was always the center of attention. And he had, what would he do?

Section 55: 00:27:56,720 – 00:28:28,470

He had antagonized people by asking why, by asking questions until they could no longer answer and meaning broke down. Ammon is doing similar things, pointing out the ridiculous thing. Can you answer like for him, right? Can you answer why is Jesus Park in a public or why is Jesus Christ in a public park at 4 am with a naked boy? If you can't answer that question, then you're you're you're falling for the gadfly, right? >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and one thing I really appreciated

Section 56: 00:28:28,480 – 00:28:58,950

From Dr. Hillman, and I think he said it many times, but I remember it was the 2018 interview. I think it was the women's group vagina monologues or something like that. That's a great one. That's one of the really early podcasts >> where and maybe it's the cannabis one. Now I forget, but he's talking about the helenic lens and the Christian lens and the consensus lens, >> right? The western lens and like the way you look at things is different depending on if you project yourself

Section 57: 00:28:58,960 – 00:29:35,029

Into an ancient hellic pre-Christian person and especially depending on time period, right? So there's this lens notion that if you uh purely use what you grew up in western civilization, a lot of this isn't going to be understandable. Um you're going to hear hail Satan and feel fear for example, right? You might even turn like hit the back button on your web page or or turn off your YouTube and not watch. >> So >> absolutely. >> So Malina, >> you've been quiet. But I want to hear

Section 58: 00:29:35,039 – 00:30:01,915

What you think about this one. >> About hell Satan. >> Yeah. >> Satan's the accuser. You know who's he accusing? He's accusing God. Yahoo. He's accusing the the one who invented mass annihilation. The one who's uh assaulting young kids and and women. and and I I

Section 59: 00:30:01,925 – 00:30:02,789

[snorts]

Section 60: 00:30:02,799 – 00:30:32,046

I couldn't understand it for a long time. Um but I was like I had to just keep reading, keep watching, keep researching and you know I was trying to work through my own translations before beforehand and I wasn't getting anywhere. Um, and I was finding all sorts of stuff, you know, about Satan. And people were asking me once I was getting more involved. Yeah. What's the hell Satan mean?

Section 61: 00:30:32,056 – 00:30:33,750

[laughter]

Section 62: 00:30:33,760 – 00:31:01,510

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And uh, can you hear me, Sam? Go ahead. >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, I was wondering like, okay, how do I explain this to people who are asking me because people are starting to ask me more often. Like my mom just asked me. And she's like, "So, are you like, "Are you a Satan worshipper?" And I'm like, "It [laughter] doesn't mean like what you think it means." And she's like, "Well, I thought it was metaphor, you know, and and at the same time, I'm like, it's

Section 63: 00:31:01,520 – 00:31:29,669

Something way beyond that." And it's fun to read all the different texts are talking about. It's fun to look in the LSJ and and to see like God's flying to see, you know, different texts that talk about the devil and Satan. And I think the way that it's set up and and we have multiple we have like three Satan articles in here because of all the different rabbit holes. I found this other rabbit hole with Satana from like

Section 64: 00:31:29,679 – 00:32:07,190

Uh just the name Satana, right? Like who is Satana? I'm like looking for that everywhere before I could even understand, you know, the the grammar. And I'm like, okay, who's who's the devil? was who who is why is Jesus going into this void realm? And and the way that it's portrayed in my mind while I'm trying to work with it is like, oh, you don't belong here. Um, cast yourself down. And I thought, you know, that's weird. And I looked up and and you know, the LSJ the Alis and I saw grouse and I

Section 65: 00:32:07,200 – 00:32:44,230

Was like, what does that mean? And spoiled milk, you know, old woman. I'm like, well, do you think I was thinking, you know, could could Tatana be like a a a name for some sort of goddess? So, [gasps] I looked and and sure enough, there's a >> Satania. >> Yeah. Well, Satania, there's Yeah. Queen Satana is the Cyian queen who >> Yeah. >> was on the seven layered tower who looked into the mirror and could see everything. And she was depicted as being um a child of the sun, of being

Section 66: 00:32:44,240 – 00:33:21,750

Golden and and emanating radiantly. And and she she was like also um seen as a historical character and uh mythology at the same time as a queen that actually existed and being >> um uh mythology just in just in like localized Georgian myth, right? And so I was reading all this stuff. I'm like, "Wow, I wish I could find more Greek to back that up, you know?" But it it's just cool because everything kind of overlaps. When you look at the Morning Star, when you look at EOS for us, you

Section 67: 00:33:21,760 – 00:34:03,110

When you see like really who that that antagonist character is that um is opposing uh God, right? um or Yahoo, what it really means and what the what the value is in looking at that and why we even are saying, you know, hail Satan. It's like, yeah, in a world that where um women aren't protected and more people are getting slaughtered. Yeah. And and that is seen as with a mask of light and love. Yeah. Of course. Hail Satan. Like that that hits home for me.

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So >> yeah, >> you know, you bringing up the uh the the accuser, the the adversary that also just is such a key part of the literature that needs to be highlighted. You know, two of the two of the my most favorite sources that Ammon recommended that I dig into is first would be Lord Byron's Cain. And like one of the most memorable lines in that play is when when Lucifer is telling Cain, he's like, "You must look God in the face and tell him his evil is not good." And that's

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What you do. That's what the Godfly does. That's what Satan does. You look the tyrant in his face and you condemn him for the evil. And you see this also in oid Fosty in the story of Tacida. Tacida, right? the silent goddess who has her who's the nymph who has her tongue ripped out for what? For standing up to Jupiter Zeus and trying to protect her sister Nymph from being raped, you know, and for that she has her tongue ripped up and she's cast into the swamps, you know, with Hermes who

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Carries her. So this in many ways when you look at that story of Tacida, it is the prototype for what becomes the story of Lucifer later in the Christian tradition. And it's all about this rebuking of the god for their abuse, right? [snorts]

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh and I want to add something to that too because also uh that can also be reflected like uh in the day-to-day like in in the now in inter >> Oh you froze on us there unfortunately

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[laughter]

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Bory. So hopefully you come back but uh yeah the Satan stuff is so wild. Anyone else have any other thoughts? >> Well, I guess to close out Hail Satan, it doesn't mean anyone is a modern Christian mythos Satan worshipper. Let's just be real clear, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Right. I mean, in fact, it's the opposite.

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And it's it's, you know, >> it's it's a gadfly sting. And it's meant to be virtuous mirroring knowledge, justice, freedom, liberty, right? Truth, all of these virtues and some good >> backy >> and some good arrows probably. >> Okay. I had this whole spiel that I was I was spitting out and [laughter] but it's all good.

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Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Oh, yeah. I was just closing out the hail Satan thing by saying it doesn't mean that we're modern Christian mythos Satan worshippers at all. Um and >> and I'll address the cult accusation. There's no cult. It's a study group and there's multiple study groups. There's like fragments and fragments and divisions and you know so many different servers. But um yeah, with the official Lady Babylon server, I think it's kind of coming together a little bit more and the workshops I think are bringing kind

Section 76: 00:37:19,760 – 00:37:39,030

Of a a really intellectual core together and it's that's that's pretty cool. It's um and let me just tell everybody, right, I've I've I've been through higher education and it's academic um and one-on-one in these uh workshops, Dr. Helman,

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He's as as as good or better than many professors I've had in my experience. Um, and he respects that that venue, right? That that um that stage [snorts] and he's yeah, he's a solid teacher and everyone's there for academics.

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Other people are there for right things. other people are there for, you know, the entertainment and right. I think that everyone's here for different reasons, but there's definitely no unified call. I would think I would be asked to join and I haven't been asked anything. So, I'll just [laughter] tell you, >> right? You've been you've been here chatting with everyone, sub, and you kind of know everyone. The same thing with Maddie. If any people were in the cult, >> right? >> You know, where's my out? if there's a cult and I'm not invited, guys. But >> where's my invitation? [laughter]

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>> You know, I I made a comment, you know, recently saying, you know, if it were a cult, we wouldn't have we wouldn't we would our our knowledge would be suppressed. Our um ability to go out in the world and share and learn for ourselves would be suppressed. We wouldn't we we it would not be functioning like this. This is a classroom and it's beautiful and it's blossing blossoming and it's catching fire and you know anybody that's accusing it of being a cult is either jealous or just doesn't understand yet

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You know and or offended or afraid. Yes. And >> here it's also it's like we're allowed to speculate. We're allowed to to to dabble in spirituality and mysticism. People are free to think and do whatever they want. But here's the key thing. Is there a defining anything? Is Ammon or anyone telling anyone what to think?

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[laughter]

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>> No. >> Outside of talking sources. >> Yeah. He's pointing at the sources and people are criticizing the finger, right? >> Yeah. >> Which, you know, look at the source. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so >> is point Ammon is pointing at the moon, but you're staring at his finger. >> Yeah. That's mine >> saying it's [laughter] >> the only thing he gets mad about is when people challenge him on the texts and the only thing he's certain of is what the texts say. Everything else is is is up. You know, I remember when I was first getting into this and I started

Section 83: 00:40:06,160 – 00:40:36,630

Messaging him and I was total fangirling at the beginning. One of the first things that he sent me and was almost in some ways a go away, why are you bugging me? um was he told me to go read Cicero and read and he said read on the nature of the gods and he goes I want you to pay attention to reason look for reason and right in the beginning of on the nature of gods by cisero is this whole diet tribe about be careful who you make

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As your teacher be damn careful because you know they you and you don't just trust them go verify their work at the end of the day we got to follow reason because you know you're only as good as the people who teach you. And also your teachers are always in are always fallible. Like Cicero begins by criticizing Pythagoras, you know. So that hit me really hard, right, as a student, >> you know, because I was kind of >> I was kind of acting in a spiritual way

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And and Ammon like was shutting it down in a [laughter] very, you know, >> in a very nice and polite way, but he was shutting it down. [laughter] >> In our in our first conversation, Snappy, you were like, "Don't make him your guru." He was like, you were you were very adamant about that. He's like, "I learned that the hard way." Yeah.

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[laughter]

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had to come out and tell me, you know, >> you're a professor, right? I mean, he's he's a mentor, >> you know, just like John Scar Bro was to him. So, >> Exactly. Exactly. This is someone you learn from. He can share with you ideas. He can bad like he can bad ideas with you. But like the thing that I've always respected about Ammon is he's never told me what to think >> and he's never ever gotten mad at me for anything that I've said, right? you

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Know, our conversations, you know, >> like a college. >> Yeah. Exactly. Like a college professor. This is really what it is. >> Yeah. >> 99% of the time he's either quoting books or recommending books. [laughter] >> Probably the coolest class that I've ever taken, you know, >> right? I mean it is >> I can say so based on you know accuracy I I'll say every time I've either not understood or or questioned or

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[sighs]

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This I got to be careful with the way this this I'm saying this and it comes off [laughter] not saying that there's some sort of blind faith like [\\h__\\h] that. No, what I'm saying is every time I didn't understand him and I didn't see the connection he was making, when I dug in deeper and deeper and deeper, I did find it, right? And so, >> you know, at first I was like, "Yeah, yeah, the little kid at 4:00 a.m. I don't know about that." Like, okay, but there's something there going on with the thirst on the thing. And so like I

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Just kept kind of picking at it and like digging into it deeper and looking deeper and learning how to translate better, right? This is like a couple years ago. And then, you know, over the last couple years, I've been learning Greek. And so, you know, you learn the grammar rules and you learn to translate. You learn to use the tools of the TLG and the uh I call it Alice, but it's Perseus Tus LSJ. um all those

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Things you you learn to use all these and like you know you heard people ask accusations oh he just cherrypicks you know and there's like a menu in the LSJ of five different totally freaking concepts and he's just cherrypicking the one that sounds like sex and at first I was like well maybe he's doing that and then I I started digging in I'm like oh this is why he cherrypicked that one like there's a reason and it's not because of of you know exp you know,

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Being uh what what do you call it? Inflammatory or like being sensational. It's not there's there's actual reasons, right? And so I started to dig for those and >> you know, [sighs and gasps] his big one is this um >> this, you know, you all recognize pictures. It's they're in a park. It's 4:00 a.m. There's evidence for four. You know, I've heard people say, "No, it's 9:00 p.m."

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4:00 A.m. They've got torches, right? So, they've got artificial light and then he gets arrested and then you hear a rooster crow like >> that's that's dawn, you know? It's it's in the morning sometime whenever dawn happens in the morning, right? Which I get I get why he says 4 a.m., [snorts] >> right? There's reasons for every every one of those little things that he tells you about this stuff. Um, >> yeah. And I I won't claim to have the entire rabbit hole yet, but that's

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That's the goal. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I call it chains of evidence, right? You want the chain of evidence. If you don't have the chain of evidence, you don't have it. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And this is this is an incredible page that you guys have really put together which is so many different layers and perspectives going through all the different verses. All of the different words in the Greek in the different various translations with the various context from other books of the Bible from other people

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Outside of the Bible. Um I'm was really really impressed when we were looking at this page. you know, there's there's just so much here. And this really is, as we're pointing out, sort of uh Ammon's, it's not the core of his argument, but it is the most direct because when we look at Mark 14:51,

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And we can, you know, people want to debate and yell about what's going on here, but what I see in this particular text is a ritual magical procedure between a master and a slave that's involving a death and a rebirth. birth role reversal, right? And it's clear and there are clear magical parallels across the tradition before Jesus and after Jesus where they're doing very very similar things, you know, like to me it's just it's it's plain as day. I don't know. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. The more you learn about the Hellenic rights and start reading texts

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Like the PGM and finding these parallels, then you're like, "Oh, well, this was something they're doing in that kind of time period, right?" And he was like, you read the text, Jesus was friends with temple people. He was, you know, prostitutes. He was friends with prostitutes and tax collectors or something, right? And what do you think prostitutes were? They were the temple >> priestesses, right? And why do you think he needed to talk to them? Well, he wanted to nerd out with the other nerds at the, you know, these are the cult

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People, the ancient priesthood. They're all like talking with each other and comparing notes and maybe selling [laughter] each other. Who knows what they're doing, right? But >> yeah, >> you know, they know that they know Lydia, the purple u merchant, right? >> Well, you know, like, have any of you ever checked out that incredible book uh by Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician?

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>> I have not. You guys all need to check this out. So, Morton Smith is >> probably the closest uh scholar that I'm aware of that comes to Ammon's conclusions. He challen he >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> Isn't that the same Isn't that the same guy with the secret gospel of Mark? >> Yes. Is it the same guy with the secret gospel of Mark? So, he's become quite crit um quite you know um within religion studies he's not taken seriously because the secret gospel of Mark has been lost. the the Orthodox

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Church lost it >> conveniently and so all of his stuff is now uh you know up for judgment and because he's a member of the LGBTQ they accuse him of being an activist you know it's nonsense though but if you go and you check out his his book Jesus the Magician I actually broke it down over on Stones and Serpents with um with Bruno a while back for his podcast >> and he actually like shows you all of these contemporary sources to Jesus who is looking at this from that helenic

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Perspective and they're like you look like a magician you talk like a magician you know you're a magician right like and everyone's kind of shaming him for this and we also have >> we also have to understand the context though of Israel and the Jewish people at the time right we're dealing with an ultraorththodox hierarchical religion

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That's reserved for a cultural elite that is only within the realm of marriage. Jesus is a bastard on the outside. The temple priestesses are on the outside. These are Jewish characters who are not sanctioned by the mainstream religion. They are able to wield power but not authorize power. Anytime you have a dynamic like this, you're going to call you're going to have a war. You're going to have a huge kind of fight. And this is exactly right. This is exactly what we wind up seeing is you

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Have all of these people who are the outsiders represented by Jesus who now want to get inside, right? And you have this tension and what do magicians do? What are what are what do we see in all these magical rights? They're taking the temple rights and they're bringing them to the masses. You know, they're taking the divinator, >> right? This is something we see in the PGM all the time. Why are they using these virgin children? because that's what they did at Delelfi, right? [laughter] So, of course, the PGM you

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Got to use a virgin kit, right? >> Yeah, that's a trip.

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>> You know, so I think like we we have to see Jesus as this magical outsider who's practicing a a a a secreted sort of um outsider version of the Right. Right. And so he falls into this whole millure, this whole magical millure. And all of this stuff is gross once you start to dig into the [laughter] >> Yeah. >> You just got to be honest. >> You look into John the Baptist and it's like, all right, this is a little bit gruesome to think about when you know

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What baptism really is and and yeah, what he was doing. people are going to the outs outskirts of town to receive his discharge, you know, and that's I can't I can't I can't deal

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[laughter]

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>> And to say there's no ritual boys in any text. So there, you know, there's so many and we've been looking at all of that, you know. So, >> right. [clears throat] Like, do we have an example of the holy [\\h__\\h]

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I mean, >> oh yeah, [laughter]

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>> I mean, we we beat that horse to death and basically laid it all out. That was easy. >> Not easy, but that was fun, right? >> I [laughter] just under this one, right? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, >> with the sparkles. >> I like that. I like that uh that article. >> This was really fun. to write um just laying it all out. Who the heck is Epiphanius, right? What is he doing? Right? Give the little bit of background, right? And just lay that out so people want to read. But then let's

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Do a faithful translation, right? And let's let's get into the translation and see what he's talking about. Right? We got the Escortion right here. >> Ion did a great translation of this as well. >> He did a great translation. And we're missing Ion right now. Um yeah, down here. Where where did he do that? Um yeah, down here. Ion took a crack at it. Yeah. And casting forth the woman from his side, he is beginning to intermingle with her. And truly so upon receiving his omission, he would demonstrate that it is necessary to do this in order that we may live. Barf, [laughter]

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>> Right? >> Right. We gota we got to rub our semen in our hands and we got to eat otherwise otherwise, you know, we're not going to survive. [laughter] What? So you know and this is Epiphanius in what 300 late 300 right and you had Ignatius to the Tians in like 100 talking about the same stuff about I think deathinducing drugs were being used and being slipped to unsuspecting people to get their converts to have pistas or trust in them which is what we translate in English to faith But it means trust

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With evidence. >> And so they're giving them >> honeyed wine with the death inducer in it to unsuspecting followers to gain their trust. And that's what Ignatius to the Trailians wrote a letter advocating that they replace I guess Christian control with a single bishop and saying that there are Christians doing this right now which that sounds

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Like the right time period for right after the apostles have kind of stopped their cult or maybe they died out and there's a power struggle or who knows what's going on and this guy's trying to buy for the no let's put a bishop in like right and like I'm sure Dr. Helman would have a lot more color than I'm giving, but this is what I'm [laughter] right. That's >> like and so there these are only two examples, right? And it's it's just interesting to see this type of stuff. >> It's truly wild. >> Wow. >> I find the hardest is just linking all the nuggets together. So, right.

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[laughter]

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>> Sense. Yeah. >> I was gonna say it's a week. You can hyperlink anything, but it's just like it's a lot of work. [laughter]

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Yeah. No, I I was talking about uh uh I was I was just going to mention the link of the the right that's being described um in in Epiphanius's writings, right? and and the right that's being described in in the Gospels and the right that's being described in Genesis >> and in the creation narrative. They're they're pretty much

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All the same, right? >> Dude, Genesis is so cool. >> I I mean is is that so like that's they're doing the same thing. It's it's it's a in each of these rights it's like I don't know maybe I'm just uh maybe the THC kicked in. I don't know. [laughter]

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>> Yeah. >> Oh gosh. Oh [laughter] wow. >> Yeah. But no, that's that's that's just where my mind went when when I was listening to you guys talk. >> You see evidence of this stuff all over the place. Like Genesis is a great one. Like we've been digging into the Genesis translation. You know, Ammon gave

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Multiple live streams, but there's one notable one that I remember where he really dug into it and he really talked about the plasen and how it's form or mold with education. Not just simply create a man from the dust, you know, it's like no, you're molding and forming with education. A little bit different type of create. Right. >> Right. Super interesting. And you know it's from Gaia the earth. So you're forming him from sounds like

Section 122: 00:55:57,359 – 00:56:34,309

Right there's three there's three savers of antiquity. There's botanica Metallica and theaka right and Metallica is your earths. And think about Lemnos and the Lemnian earth that the sacred priesthood would dig out and like stamp with their symbol and whatever. >> Jesus spit on spit on the ground and mixed mixed it with mud >> and made >> uh earth. I mean maybe this account was even on Limnos. I don't know. I think somebody had had a [laughter] was thinking it was Samothrace, too. But you might know more about that, Snappy.

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You seem to know a lot of the the myth and lore. Yeah. I mean that stuff is just kind of wild, right? You know. >> Yeah. It's totally wild. >> It you know. >> Well, the other fun thing is the Zulon, >> the wooden thing. >> Well, it's what people translate >> Oh, the Zenon. Yeah. The Zenon. Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, Zulon. So, people translate the tree, right? It's the tree of life, >> right? >> Or the tree of knowledge, yada yada yada. But it can also mean the wooden

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Thing, >> right? This has to do with the asheroples, right? >> Well, imagine or a rod, >> right? >> The wooden thing of knowledge. >> Yes. What's happening? [laughter] >> Yes. >> The fruit of that wooden thing too, right? You know, >> right? [laughter] >> There's the wooden thing. >> Makes me think of all of these de meteorites that we see where they they you got to make Gaia come and you got to use the giant wooden fallus to do so. We all got to dance around the rod. You Know, this is where a lot of those may pull rights originate. You know,

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[laughter]

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>> This is where it feels maybe appropriate to stop and say that there's an underlying thing in our consciousness that we can trigger, right? And there's lots of traditions across lots of religions across the entire planet, right? And you can see this from like sweat lodges and iawaska ceremonies to you know the ancient Greek um you know pharmarmacon and death inducer stuff. Now ammon and Dr. Hillman will point out

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It's way different and yeah with every tradition you have a different sacrament you have a different pharmarmacon. you have a different substance and those cause different effects and and it seems like the snake venoms

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[snorts]

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From hearing Dr. Helman talk about it induces a near-death experience uh you know just like an extreme dissent and psychosis even right which is very different than like a friendly mushroom ego death type of experience. Well, it it seems to be like when we look at a lot of these magical rights, even across culturally, there needs to be this descent, this near death. Okay? >> But all of them have the descent. That's the thing, right? All of them have some sort of descent and like rise and like

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Above and below the line or whatever. There's like cosmic mountain like everybody has these different variations kind of the same like mental cosmos thing and like arranging your inner forces to be in harmony with each other, >> right? So you can ascend. >> But but I mean it it it seems to be this thing where you have to push yourself to the brink of death and then you engage the the drug and then this is what allows you to cross over >> into ionic life. And there seems to like

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>> This seems to be a massive key like um when I look at cross-culturally if we look at you know we have for example the myth of the goddess hell and hell becomes the one in north mythology who can see between the worlds and can speak to the dead and the way she does it is half of her body dies right Loki takes her and he puts her into the water and leaves her to die and then resurrects her with a potion and half of her body

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Remains remains dead. >> Um or we see this for example in the Indian with Shiva and Parvy where Shiva goes off to the mountains and he enters into perpetual meditation bliss and then Poverty is trying to wake him up and she has to imitate him and in order to imitate him she starves herself to the point of almost near death and then she starts eating the lotus seeds >> and then she achieves this mystical union with Shiva and he wakes up. Yeah, fasting is a common component,

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>> Right? Across cultures even. >> Across cultures. >> Now, I mean, one of the nastiest ones is this helenic one, right? I mean, with with the viper venoms and the antidotes. I mean, that's that's that's metal, man. So,

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>> Sounds more like >> Yeah, it sounds like a more of a hardcore experience than >> Right. Right. So, you know, I' I'd choose mushrooms. I think those are going to be the friendly ones, right?

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[laughter]

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But I don't think you get the same thing out of mushrooms to be really clear and and Dr. Helman has been very clear about this that it is it is a very different experience with that really extreme um venom right um you know you bring brink the brink of death and psychosis and you know I don't think we have a good description of what it is right because I don't know that anybody living here has has been through it maybe the maybe the venom boy on YouTube who keeps

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Getting the bites on that kid >> that what he's like 9 years old. Love it. >> There's a kid. >> You should pull up the Yeah, there's a kid. So, there's a kid that's getting famous from just uh allowing snakes and different animals to sting him. And I don't know, he does it for fun. It's like his addiction, but he's like 8 years old. >> I saw the skateboarder guy who would do it in order to for an adrenaline rush and and he was on Vice like several

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Years ago. >> Yeah, he's really famous. He's kind of a weirdo, but he's got a YouTube channel. Really interesting character. You know, we're all characters. >> But what we can see there is that they're demonstrating the immunity that happens. In fact, that's how we professionally generate antivenenoms today is I think it's with sheep, right? And we take their blood serum to get the antibodies from them and then we package that as a pharmaceutical, but it comes from sheep, >> right? Oh, >> this is one of the interesting things With the whole idea of Jesus Christ in the lamb imagery, right? The lamb is an antidote to the snake venom.

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[laughter]

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>> You should theoretical and we can look at it because uh I love or at least uh is that one or the >> you talking about this one with andas or you talking about the other? that one, but no, the the one um just because there's it goes into, you know, like what what are all the snake venoms? What is what are all these recipes and stuff? And it's really cool that >> we have this documented because look, there's there are there are, you know, recipes with 200 ingredients. There's

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Stuff that doesn't have that much. So, it's like, okay, what what are people doing? And I and I love it because you know Mithrates is the the lineage. He's proudly the lineage of media, right? And replicating this in his own

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Way, in his own magical form. And you know, this is just a great resource as well to to see what is there that we have documented too. >> And um >> yeah, from many different sources.

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[laughter]

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It's ridiculous. Like cuz they're not, you know, the the the amount that Galen is using is such a huge amount. It's it's kind of wild. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> But it's also interesting like the effect of each of these substances, plants,

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You know, animal substances has a spiritual connection, you know, with them and many different cultures. But you know I think about you know my my experience with just being exposed to scopaline and atropene right just that one plant imagine everything else interacting with each other different different reactions like what is this that is being replicated it's very interesting I don't know but >> it's super interesting so taking a tiny step back. Venoms seemed to be a common element in this ancient medicine, right?

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And you heard the boy on YouTube or maybe it was the teenager or the the young young man. He was a neon, right? Um he was like 20 or something and I think he was boxing and he was like, "This makes me stronger." And you know, anecdotal, okay, but he said his grandpa lived to 101 and like never was sick and like, you know, his doctor said his telomeirs are like a 29 year old, but he's 48 and it's like, >> yeah, anecdotal and like who knows like

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Prove it guy. But >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> But it's interesting and it mirrors like what what you hear about the antiquity stuff and then Yeah. And it seems like there's medicines that go back to media to, you know, Hecate to even the the Amazonians and the Cythian women with the bows and their arrows and their smear in their hair that they rub their arrows on and they shoot the guy and they freeze him and bam, you got Medusa's arch type after that with the snakes freezing a guy, you know, same

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Thing, right? >> [snorts] >> And then later you've got um Escalpius and the healing traditions and oh yeah the Victorians wrote about the snakes on the floors but don't worry they're nonvenenomous but why the hell would there be snakes on the floors? Why would they write I've seen carved reliefs. >> It's for your dream magic >> incubate [laughter] with a patient laying down with a snake on top of him. Why? Right. So symbolic

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And the symbolic thing got them healed. No. No. If you that doesn't make any sense. >> So >> well you know there is that whole ritual they would do in the Sleepian tra after you slept with the snakes then you had to go perform your dream to the priest >> and then they would interpret your dream. >> Yeah. >> So there's a whole kind of ritual. >> But you know there's probably drugs involved. there's pro, you know, like it's hard to say what's 100% going on there.

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>> Well, sleep with the snake is another way of not revealing their secrets. Right. >> Right. Right. You know, but one wild thing I wanted to point out too is like when I was doing the research into the snake venom, I found that in India, the indigenous people are still utilizing the snake venom as an alternative for like hard drugs in order to get high. And it's actually become an epidemic among the extreme poor in some places when they can't get access to other drugs like heroin or >> opio powerful drug.

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>> You know, people get it. What they would do is like in this one article I read, I posted it in the Soma library a while back, but they these guys would be strapped to the chair and then the shaman would take the snake and they'd have the snake bite them underneath the tongue right there in your mouth. >> Wow. >> Right. And then then these people would supposedly they'd have like a trip for seven days, you know, and and then and and the people who would do this, these

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Are most of them were like people suffering from heroin addiction, you know, and couldn't get access because like this is not this is not the most fun thing in the world. >> It sounds like we modern corroboration of venoms being psychoactive in some way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's pretty it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild, you know. Um and so yeah, they cracked down on it in a big way in India now. >> They're doing scorpion venom.

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[laughter]

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>> Yeah, they smoke they smoke the scorpions whole. But the scorpion thing has become a big deal. So when I was looking into that, okay, did you guys realize that scorpion venom is the most expensive liquid by weight in the world?

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Wow. And there's a whole massive market for collecting it. So it's become a huge deal. They don't they they they you know collecting the venoms. It's like a massive black market in India and Pakistan. Wow. >> Real insane stuff. >> And what do they use the venoms for? Is it people who know that it's good for medicine? >> It's for medicine. Yeah. It's for use. It's for use in pharmaceuticals. >> And why is that a black market as opposed to like a real market? Is it

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Banned in their country? it's banned in their country and it's it's it's it's not been fully developed. So part of the reason why is because where these these particular animals are living is in war torn places. Yeah. >> You know >> and so it's not lucrative and and you know a a lot of these companies they exploit the degradation of the people there. They like it this way because it can keep the price. >> But this is one place where maybe we could learn the pharmacy of those

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Medicines. But right >> there's text too. I think [snorts] >> there's just there is something kind of wild and and special though about that kind of area around Pakistan and India. You know the schithians were said to come from there. You also get like um Dian Isis is said to come from there. The earliest form of Dian Isis you know it's it's this massive crossroads where east meets west you know. Uh it's interesting. It's super. >> But I don't mean to do rail. Sorry. >> Oh, it's super interesting. You know,

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It's it's it's migration patterns, its origins, all this stuff. It's really cool, >> right? >> It's really cool. >> And it's man, it's so different if you read a Greek text about the polace and the citizens and the the lion fights and stuff like that versus ancient priesthood. Like, no one talks about the ancient priesthood. Some people do, but it's it's rare, right? I mean, >> it is rare. Well, you know, we also have to remember is that and Ammon talks. This is one of the things that I love

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About everyone should go read original sin. That's my favorite of his three books because he just lays out the genocidal history and the eraser of the pagan, of the LGBT, of the women. >> And we have to we have to take that into context. You know, so much of this has been completely vilified. So when we do see any of it, it's parodyied or it's been usurped. Like the sibils, they become Christianized, right? The great mother becomes the Virgin Mary. They literally take the same iconography of Deer with the child Plutus and that's

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Just the the mother Mary with Jesus, you know? So it's it's hard for us to see where one ends and one begins. >> And it's funny. It's really disarming, but like she was just a temple priestess. That's why she was a virgin because she was a parthononos because temple priestesses were parthonos, >> right? And that I think that was in the the gyomorph book actually. But um yeah,

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I mean it makes total sense. You slap your head and you're like, "Oh, well that's how a virgin can have a baby." Temple priest up, >> right? Priestess is a virgin. So a virgin is a title,

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Right? A parthonos is a title. >> Mary's. >> So yeah, that titled person over there got pregnant, >> right? That's what they're saying. They're not calling her a virgin who somehow gave a immaculate birth. And that they just confuse things because like men are stupid, >> right? You know, and it's it's all a twisting of earlier stories, right? If we if we study >> you know you study the foundational myths of Rome >> and what do you got at the foundational myth of Rome? Reyes Sylvia, a temple Priestess who what? Gives birth to magical twins,

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[laughter]

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>> You know, who then go on to do what? One of them dies and then one of them is elevated and then is able to found the city, you know, it's like this is a magical kind of trope and you can see the parallels later on in Christianity because Christianity usurped Roman religion. It just took it wholesale, right? In the Roman, the main Roman religion at the time of Christianity was the great mother cult. You know, Emperor Julian lays it all out for us. He's such

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A great source for this. Reading his letters to the Galileans, him to the mother of gods, and the Hinda King Helios, he just lays it out flat for you. Christians are stealing our rights and our mystery. I have to reveal it because if I don't reveal it, then it's going to be lost, you know. >> Yeah,

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Absolutely. >> [laughter] >> you know. >> Oh yeah, we should get into media actually since she is the the center focus of all of this work in many ways, the mother goddess herself, right?

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[snorts]

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>> Yeah. And you know, I know I know we call her the first Christ or by we Dr. Hillman, right, has said that on many occasions. And

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[snorts]

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>> I think you could probably find women before her. But I think it's like it's very fitting just to kind of frame everything because for the Greek world, right, you saw Medusa on everything. It was like a brand, right? It was like seeing Nike on everything. >> Yeah. >> It was a protection symbol, right? >> KFC. And you saw Medadia on everything. Yeah. Maybe a protection symbol, right? But but what snakes in the hair like venom medicine is a savior like and you put this on everything. It's like, yeah,

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Venom's cure. And so they put this protection symbol on you because it cures, right? And like when I was at Elusus, I visited there earlier this year. Um, you know, they had two statues and they had the protection media uh not media, but Medusas on their on their chests, right? And then they they also had, of course, the torches, >> right? Which >> I think you you see Medadia and Hecate and I think uh series and, you know, it's a torchbearer icon. Anyone with Feebis or Phoebe, all of those got it.

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>> Yeah. Seline, all of them. Diana, Artemis. >> And so the torch bear, that's like >> that's like your modern psychotherapist laying on, you know, sitting in the chair watching you with your blindfold on sitting in the bed guiding you through, you know, 10-hour LSD journey or six-hour mushroom journey or maybe the Iawaska shaman sitting there and he's guiding you, right? But that's the torch bearer. They're guiding you, right? And I'm sure it's different in the hellistic, >> you know, flora and fauna because they've they've got hymns and psalms and writes and, >> You know, fumigations and like other set and setting things with the kit and the lra liar, right? And the guitar players and everything, right? Um, so it's just fascinating.

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[laughter]

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>> Oh, it's it's so fascinating. It's so beautiful. One of my favorite things is when you look at Elusus and you see Hecati as the virgin holding the two torches. This is one of her oldest iconographic symbols that we still have of her, >> you know, and she's there leading all of the initiates across the Illanian way. I mean, did was she still there when you went or had they moved her into a museum? >> I saw two giant torches, but I didn't see anybody holding those. Okay.

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>> And so, there might have been another thing that you're talking about that I did not see. Mhm. >> Um what they had was a >> museum find you can find it online. It's a really famous statue actually with the two torches. >> They had a like at the top of the hill they had a little museum and it was it was cool. It was well done. There's a lot of stuff in there. >> Um >> but we we have a really good question here that I want to pose to you guys

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That's being asked and it's it's one that we should unpack and it's asking what is a virgin, you know, and uh is a virgin just a woman who hasn't given birth yet? And I think we really do need to unpack this in the Greek sense. Do you guys have an article on virginity or >> I think we have a >> paros because it's really about the the the coming of age into the ripeness of spring, right? >> Yeah. >> Someone

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>> Okay. >> Yeah. It's a female who's fertile who hasn't had a child. Uh it's a female in the bloom of life. Yeah. >> Right. is that it's that maiden. It's that oracular priestess. >> And >> but the the virginity is really that spark of the blossom when the child enters into puberty and it's that magical time for a couple years when you're at your height. >> But it's also understood, right? Like when we're talking about the uh the virgin priestesses, most of the time these were children who were given to the temples as children. And then only

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The most perfect of those children are then chosen for special training which would culminate when they had achieved puberty and then from their pub then when they were at that age they would be an oracular divinatory person for several years until you know I can't can't remember the age ammon went through it in a recent >> they become old and then they'd teach the other younger girls in their first

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Supposed to be like 10 year 10 year 10 year. Thank you. It's 10 year cycles. You you 10 years as an oracle. >> Yeah. 10 years as a teacher and then when you turn 30 the women would return to secular life and would get married and would become empowered women within the community. Usually they were they were community leaders or power behind the throne, you know, advising their their husbands or other people. But re especially in Rome with the vesta virgins, we see this and it's well

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Documented. So one other really important part is it it sounds like they have a system of democracy based on the parthonos because they couldn't trust [snorts] older people, you know, with with money issues and greed and all these things, right? They they figured the only innocence was the female in the bloom of life. Basically, if if we want to know whether we should go to war or not, we should ask this person because they're not corrupted yet, right? And if they're not corrupted, they're going to give us an honest answer of whether we should go to war or whether or not I should hang that

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Man for his crime, right? And so, female power, guys. Female power. Women. >> Yeah. It's it's also wild too cuz there's even later sources that talk about like specifically Adelfie near before it ended. They were getting raided so often by pirates. They actually stopped the virgin rights for for several years and brought in a crone >> and then it got destroyed by the Christians. But like cuz people just kept coming in the bar after after you know when paganism stopped being so important, no one was protecting them

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Anymore and they just kept getting raided until it was torn down. >> Was so were they still running after it was made illegal? >> Um they they ran for I'm I'm [clears throat] not too sure. I'd have to go look at the exact sources, but I know that they were officially sanctioned and and forced to close down at at at a specific point. >> Yeah. Like 391 where they made everything illegal. Right. >> Exactly. And so they went to them and they shut it down. But there was there

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Was a you know there's several years there where they're kind of operating in a shady in >> shady some Fahrenheit 451 book burnings and Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. I mean it's like Handmaid's Tale a little bit, right? >> Total Handmaid's Tail, >> right? And it's hard for us to imagine the kind of um you know cultural [clears throat] genocide that was underway, >> right? >> Yeah. like a complete eraser of the traditional mythopoetic system and it being replaced with Christianity. You know, >> this whole parthonos thing is a heads

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Slapper for Virgin Mary. It it takes away the supernatural fairy tale back aless of it and it really tells you what was going on. It's like, yeah, her and her cousin Elizabeth, her no sister Elizabeth were both temple priestesses, Parthonos and Elizabeth had John the Baptist first >> and then uh I want to say it was like six months later. I don't know, it was a year later or something. >> Six months. >> Was it six months? And then the dancing babies in the bellies, right?

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>> [Laughter]

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>> It also just parallels so much what we see in earlier sources and earlier texts like you had brought up like the priestesses were prostitutes and they generated money for the temple. This is what they did. >> Call them prostitutes. >> No, that was part of their services. >> That was that was part of their but my point Yeah, you're right. They didn't call them that. That was a holy sacred service. It was part of the rights. Like we see this in Lucian's um >> Yeah.

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>> What's that called? Uh the Syrian And so this is a difficult topic just like slavery is. Right. It's hard to imagine 200 years ago people had slaves and they're good people. >> Right. Right. But here's people 2,000 years ago and they're >> selling their sex. And today we look at that with judgment but back then it was sacred and they're getting a result from these people somehow. >> And we see this like in the Syrian goddess. so wild is like the women who wouldn't give themselves freely to strangers then had to shave their heads,

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You know, this was it was one or the other, you know. >> Yeah. >> And um this is part of the wildness there. But like >> you know and it's just we see just so many similarities and so many parallels like this stuff is like when we look at Rya Sylvia right again with the foundation of Rome she bankrolls the founding of Rome because she's a wealthy woman because she made all this money from selling herself >> and they literally sell it [clears throat] the work the wolf founds

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Rome and gives the the the initial money to set up the building of You know, where did she get all that money from? >> Right. >> Wow. >> I love that story of Numa and Nigeria too, >> right? Yeah. That's a such a classic one. >> Yeah. >> And [laughter] then >> but like even when we look at the the the the Bible too, right? Like um there's uh what's it there's Mary and then there's uh the mother of the twins, James and John. What's her name? Uh

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Mary. She has another title, but she's like some kind of gang leader, prostitute lady connected with the temple and she's got money. She's bankrolling all these young fishermen. It's there's some weird shady stuff going on. >> Yeah, you know. >> Yeah, there is. So, [laughter] I wanted to close out on the whole virgin parthonos thing. I wanted to get your take on all of this. Um, you know, people give some criticism

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To Lady Babylon and to Dr. Hillman for even mentioning [snorts] children and in some of the things that they're using them for 2,000 3,000 years ago, right? And I I've I've had some questions and I haven't really had a great answer because I I don't know myself and I haven't dug that far to understand. I I but I've had questions where people say, "Hey,

Section 192: 01:24:22,480 – 01:24:58,390

The the little boy with Jesus, that sounds that sounds wicked. That sounds horrible." Okay, book book shut, right? And then Parthonos Priestess, the the female version. Well, is that just as bad or or is that somehow different? Right? And there's a question there. Like my my answer was there might be something bad there in today's morals and laws that we would not be able to allow or want to allow that would it would just be bad for us. But back then there still might be a nugget that's

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Kind of odd, right? But but this is this woman has power. This woman is educated. This woman becomes I think a free woman after she she does her tenure here. Um this woman calls the shots in democracy. >> I think that we have to look at it as anthropologists and we have to approach this as a legitimate human culture that existed within its own cultural framework. Right? And so we can be critical of a culture but we have to understand it within its own moors at the same time. So I think that like when

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I look at for example you know the parthnos and the the the girl rights right like these women are educated they are celebrated they are empowered they are priestesses the ch the children are offered to the temple like it's not something that we would necessarily like but we can see parallels in many other cultures like in Buddhist cultures people still offer their children to the temples and expect them to grow up and be virgins and live within that for their whole life, you know. Um, and then the use of enthogens and in in in medicine again like this is all so

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Culturally dependent. What is a medicine? What is healing magic? What is a ritual? So, I think we really have to be in that anthropological perspective. Like I'm not saying that you can't be critical about this as an individual, but we have to understand that this is ancient Greek culture and and we're not talking about revitalizing this. No one is talking about bringing it back as it was. And this is the key. We can look at this and we can understand it. But I think it's also important to see that what we see with these rights with the um with the priestesses is we see a

Section 196: 01:26:48,480 – 01:27:26,070

Mother child right. We see something that's kept within the magical feminine tradition and it has this very ancient root where what happens later on is a pyatic. It's it's it's it's magic that's about dominating and abducting the other. This is not a mother and a child engaging in a loving education, >> right? Trying to see the future, trying to help their community. Now we're seeing a dominating master exploiting a child for their own personal gain. >> Yeah. You know, >> see that in so many texts

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>> That we've explored previously, right, >> of you know, people taking things too far, [gasps] you know, but >> yeah, >> the way that it was established was for a force of healing and for a force of justice, right? And somehow they they protected and um

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Allowed that blossoming to um be

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Innocent and flourish. And when it became inverted is when and corrupted and you know uh unprotected is when things kind of went haywire. Right. >> Absolutely. when you take it out of that priestess kind of thing is when you get the magic texts and this is something that I want to point out right like these virgin rights continuously happen across the magical text like you can go to the earliest magical texts we have like the PGM and the PDM all the way up until modern texts like that one I

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Showed you guys on witches symposium from the 1890s where they were still doing it in Alexandria and they're using boys they're getting them drugged by sophumication and by putting stuff in their eyes and then they're getting them to divine through liquid or flame, >> right? Like this is something that it's not just the Christians, right? It's the pagans and and it's the Christians and then it even continues into the modern times, right? It's it's >> it's the Muslims too. It's the Jewish people too. [laughter] Like everyone's [clears throat] doing

Section 201: 01:29:07,760 – 01:29:39,750

It. >> And this is where I'll say we don't condone own that. We don't support it. >> We're not saying we need to bring it back. We're not saying that they're >> wonderful. But I think Snappy, to your point, you have to view them in the lens of the time period. If you're going to time travel there and understand them, you have to, and this is wearing your academic hat, right? You're you're wearing your like I'm gonna I'm going to know and I'm going to understand hat, right? And doesn't mean

Section 202: 01:29:39,760 – 01:30:02,070

We're celebrating. That means that we're understanding. >> So let's understand why they're doing this and what they found virtuous about it and you know maybe there was things that weren't virtuous as well and like let's understand all of it, >> right? So >> yeah, >> absolutely. And we also got to point out too like we're talking and approaching this from a helenic pagan perspective

Section 203: 01:30:02,080 – 01:30:29,990

And helenic paganism there is no orthodoxy there is no heterodoxy there is no overarching belief of any kind other than traditional texts that we share in a language that we share. So we all get to make up our own opinions on this and just because we practice the same traditions doesn't mean we accept everything doesn't mean we can't throw things out that we no longer like you [laughter] know

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Text not everybody was in agreement either and there's different perspectives and different ways that people talk about the same thing and >> right that's that's the joy of reading these things is you start to >> dig for clues and evidence and you're like oh this guy he didn't he didn't have ears to hear. But this guy seems to know what he's talking about, right? >> You think the Artemis [laughter] priest you think the priestesses of Artemis are walking across the street to go worship Zeus? >> No. [laughter] No. They're doing their

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Own things. Everyone's involved in do they got their own thing. They got their own views. They're following their own path. They're loosely connected and they respect each other. But it's loose profitable, >> right? >> And this is how it should be, right? like orthodoxy and heterodoxy are far more a result of modern Abrahamic and religions and more about religions of control, religions of state, >> control. They just want to control the narrative. >> That's what you saw from 100 to 400 there. It was just a bunch of political

Section 206: 01:31:32,239 – 01:32:03,750

Maneuvering and here's what's in and out of our book. Let's have a council and vote on it, right? Type of stuff. Oh, this is now >> canon and this is now apocryphal, right? That's that's what they were doing, right? They're consolidating. Oh, this is messy. This system of government with a hundred different temple types in our city. Let's have one temple type where we have all the authority. Right. That's what they did. >> Yeah. Right. This is this is one of the things like it's like when you look at it from a historical capitalist

Section 207: 01:32:03,760 – 01:32:39,590

Perspective, it all starts to make way too much sense. You know, what does Christianity give the Roman Empire? You have pagan universalism combined with Jewish exceptionalism. I can have my cake and eat it too. I can alienate in anyone I want and accept anyone I want. Everything is outside and everything is in. It's the ultimate play, you know. It just allows you to just take and rape whoever you want. >> Yeah. Villain victim salvationist doctrine. Right. >> Exactly. Right. And it's all founded on you submit to my perspective and to my

Section 208: 01:32:39,600 – 01:33:16,629

Authority or you are doomed, you know, [laughter] and it just gets so ridiculous too, right? Like I remember in my university when uh at one point studying the uh Christian crusades of Scandinavia and the you know the adoption of Christianity in Scandinavia and it took a ridiculously long time. We actually have a statue of Jesus Christ, the spearchucker. That's what it says on him because it's a a combination of Jesus and Thor. Because the people there looked at Jesus and they went, "No, this is a weak a weak willing. It's not our

Section 209: 01:33:16,639 – 01:33:29,270

Culture. No, we want Thor." >> So, what did the how did the Catholics sell this to the Norse? They they they they amalgamated them together, >> you know, and they did it over generation.

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Okay. Hey, I'm I'mma have to call it a night, guys. Uh it's getting kind of late over here. >> Um >> but uh but yeah, this was great. >> Love you, Cruz. >> This was great. >> Can we uh can we talk about the glossery sub? >> Sure. >> Cool. >> Great to see you. Thank you so much. >> All right. H Satan. >> H Satan. You're talking about the Orphic Fox glossery or the STR >> the Orphic Fox.

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>> Yeah. So, this could be a little better organized, but you know, we've been dumping in the eyes to see, ears to hear, euphemisms into here, right? You know, what is an antichrist? What's a basilica? What's a bed? Let's burn off their mortality. What's a centaur? What's a Christ? What's a cup ofa?

Section 212: 01:34:29,199 – 01:35:06,950

Why don't you talk through this a little bit? I want to hear what you think. >> Okay. I I like it. It's at the very end of the s library at the bottom. Um, and it's great for anybody that's like just new and doesn't understand all the lingo >> um, when watching, you know, especially if you're like, hey, you know, you have never even heard of this stuff or know anything about ancient Greek language or any sort of myths like me. I wasn't exposed to anything, you know, in growing up at all. So, a lot of the the stories and stuff have been really

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Foreign to me. Um, but having kind of building um this glossery of some of the the words and their encoded meaning um some of the things that I mean we could expand more on that that lead to other articles that we've talked about. you know, I I like referring to it sometimes. Um, Sub wrote some really good descriptions like um at the very top where he talks about ion um and >> Oh, that's a great one we should unpack because that's the >> Yeah. So, what is the what is the ion?

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>> Yeah. Do you want to talk about it, Seb? >> Who wants to take a crack? >> Yeah. There's the ion and there's ionic life, right? And and life It's it's the nuanced word. It's it's Zoe, right? Um Zoe is a more profound form. It's like an animated life force, right? It's a little different than Yeah. I'm just sitting in my backyard drinking a soda or something. [laughter] My life in my backyard, right? It's like this animated life force and it's this ion outside of time, this timeless or divine dimension of consciousness,

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Right? And Dr. Helman described it really interesting where he said, "Yeah, it's that feeling you get when you're at the grocery store and you look across the store and you see this beautiful person and you imagine your entire life with that person and all of a sudden you realize you've been staring for five minutes and and you just lost track of time, right?" And it's,

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You know, the same thing. And it's this ionic life. It's this like timelessness, but also, you know, they're using pharmarmacon and they're using death inducing drugs and they're using viper venoms and so they're getting an induced effect

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That helps them achieve that that sort of thing. Um, >> we're also getting into so much of like Greek cosmology when we get into the ion because it's so important to talk about the ion from the orphic perspective, right? as the god of like the ion is the first created thing that comes out of nyx out of night right it's also equated with cosmogonic aeros with fonnies and of course with metis there are many different names that we see but it's this idea right that that it

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You know there you got the ion standing inside of the zodiac and again it also connects to the orphan Kronos because the ion is divided by that Satnian power right at the crossroads he's split and he becomes the unfolding of all creation right so that gadfly causes this this split from that primordial one into the descending of all forms and so much of our you know the cycles of life are about us realizing that we're this ion aerosionis and returning back to that cycle. This is the cycle of death and rebirth. The one becomes many in order

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To know itself and in order to rec you go through that descent to then return to the womb. And entering into that wholeness allows you to then experience time from that greater perspective. You you you can reach the mother. We see this like in the hint of the mother of gods by Julian, you know.

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>> Yeah.

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So, it's interesting digging into the lexicons to translate something like John 3:16, which a lot of people hold up as, hey, if Jesus takes my sins, I'll have eternal life forever and so I'm just going to be born again, right? Like not so fast because it's Ionian and it's not a life, right? If if you look >> if you look down here, Platinus tells us Ionian is not the same as Adon, >> you know, and this stuff was so mind-blowing to me when I first started

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To get into it because then you recognize, wait, you're telling me that the great mother de meter has the child to come, Plutous Hypocrates, it's a virgin birth and that this is what the cycles rest upon. you know, the Corey gets abducted and then she's reborn as the child to come and this is the death and the rebirth, the descent and the rise. You know, when you start to see this and then you look at Christianity, I'm like, it's just completely bloody lifted. It's completely bloody lifted

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And dumbed down. Well, when you get in the Mark, >> right, we touched on this briefly before, but yeah, before the Gethsemane scene, you see Jesus uh in anguish and ecstasy, right? He's taking something

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Something's going on, right? And then he gets arrested. He goes, he's on the cross. He's got symptoms of thirst. Why do they keep talking about thirst? He's thirsty. He's screaming. He's thirsty. And he's they're giving him a sponge with medical vinegar on it, which Okay, interesting. But that's a therapy for dips poisoning, which incidentally dips means thirst. And they're using the word dipass all over the crucifixion scene. So dips has a viper. It's a thirst viper, but it also has, you know, thirst. I could be thirsty, so I could

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Be dips as well, right? And then uh yeah, they poke him with a sword and bloody water comes out which one of the symptoms of dips viper venom poisoning is um extreme thirst. And we see this >> swelling. Yeah. >> In the work, it's either the Alexi Pharma or the the I'm not sure which one at this point, but I'm sure Dr. Helman's like rolling his eyes. But [laughter] but yeah, it's over there in the canderland and you can read about it and he's talking about how your belly button

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Will burst or whatever, right, if you if you drink too much water. And here's Jesus with water pouring out of his belly, complaining of thirst the entire time. And you're like, "Okay, weird." And they go to break his legs. He's already passed out, right? No, they said he's not breathing. And so everybody assumes he's dead, which okay, maybe he's just as good as dead, but he's the first one. Why Why would Why would this guy pass? Well, yeah, he's complaining of thirst. He has all these

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Problems. He's clearly going through something, right? And they're giving you all the clues, right? And yeah, so then they take them down, they bandage them up and you know they use the fine grade surgical linen bandage stuff and they put them I think they dig a hole into the rocks and then they make a you know when we were in uh Turkey we saw these rock caves underground and they had these big I don't know if it was granite but like they these big like doughnut

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Shaped like rolling rocks that they could roll in front of the openings and and basically block it off to attackers, right? And so it sounds like they also had a rolling stone that kind of like >> it's a door. >> It's a door. They made a door and that's how they made doors when they carved into the rocks in Capidokia and Turkey. You see these things everywhere, right? And so I guess they weren't in Capidoshia, but you know, those same people I think migrated up there because there's a ton of Christian settlements

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In those rocks too up in Capidoshia. So anyway, go figure. So yeah, super interesting. And then um yeah, catharsis chamber. It's like a mirror image to the PGM, right? PGM has prepare a pure room,

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Right? And you know, eslepian healing chambers. You're in incubate in Yeah. incubating with the snakes. Right. >> Right. Really interesting. >> Incubating with the snakes. And if we look at like the Mithris liturgy, you have the you have the master and the slave. You have that whole flipping of the poles doing this magical right where one is empowered and the other is not. And then they and they flip positions. And to me, when I look at all this too, like if we take again Julian's word for it, and that source that Ammon showed me

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Is still my favorite source ever. for him to the mother of gods, Emperor Julian. And it just walks you through the whole thing and you see so many of it. You see so many parallels. Addis in that story is in the cave of the nymphs. He's bound in the nymphs, bound in his own greed and desire, right? And we even see like Telosphoros is this little dwarf god who's often representative of this kind of sexual desire and he stands in for the neonos in some of these

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Stories. Okay. So you have even the guy in the cave with the nymph with the boy, right? And what does he have to do? He has to invoke madness. He has to take the drug as Helios, right? Helios comes, causes Addis to go mad and then he leaves the cave. He castrates himself and what does he do? He rides the beast like media, you know, and rides it imitating the mother going through a transition becomes like her in a sense to the stars. >> What do we see? Jesus is going through

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This transition, right? In order to become a god, in order to exit time to die and be reborn, he's doing the same thing. He goes into the cave of the nymphs, he rejects the boy, you know, and then he ascends on the cross. >> Yeah. And why did they write this in encoded language? Well, look what happened when the mystery in the sacrament formula got out. All hell broke loose and they had a coup. Right. >> Yeah. So, this is why they encoded all this stuff and made it hard for us to read,

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Too. >> There's real power and real magic here. You know, who controls the oracles also controls the the can can can be the king can can do everything. Like we see this for example in Aristophanes birds, right? This is one of the perfect examples when we're talking about the solommonic magic because they just lay it out, right? The trusty friend Pisceteras realizes, he's told by Prometheus, if he can get Hera from Zeus and marry her, then he can become the next Zeus because that's where all

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Zeus's power lies is with Hera. It's not his, of course, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And they and through the prayers, right? But they steal the prayers through the power of birds and then they steal his magic by taking the divine feminine, you know. >> Yeah. >> And this is the trick. So these rights allow you to gain that divinatory knowledge which you can see outside of time and then empower yourself and create these empires, you know. [snorts] >> Yeah, that's fascinating.

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>> It's really fascinating if you're talking if you're really nerding out about empire building. >> This is all fascinating. >> Right. >> Right. Because it's all empire building. like this ancient priesthood got together and they're like, "Well, what's going to create a stable civilization that the tyrants won't corrupt and take it off the rails in, you know, 100 years, >> right? Right. >> This this is why the biography of Numa is such a great source for understanding this because that's exactly what Numa is doing. He's creating the foundation for the city. He's building their national

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Religion in their legal framework. And how does he do it? entirely through the muse, >> you know, entirely through the muse, >> right? So that's the foundation that then becomes Rome upon which Rome is based, you know, [snorts] >> and we're seeing the same things in these rights. It's all about creating this empire magic in order to empower yourself, right? So that you can generate wealth and control across lineage.

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>> It's wild. I feel like this is [laughter] deadest horse of them all. The neonos one. >> Yeah, >> there is such a breakdown. I mean, it's like Epanius Panerian. It's like beaten to death where like if you just want to read about why necos Is a younger person, it's it's here.

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[laughter]

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You know, some of these semantic debates are just so frustrating. But I'm glad that you guys are doing it because this is where the brothel really comes in and tries to poke >> at at at the research that that Dr. Hillman has done and that the community has done, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even Pho of Alexandria, the seven stages of life has the neon goes as a pubertal to a teen, right? And um yeah, it's not seven year increments like that's that's a misreading of of that one, right? It's

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Seven stages of life, right? You know, you might each stage might be different length and whatever, but there's seven stages. There's seven divisions. So >> you know I brought it up before but like when we look at the magic if we accept that there is a magical right being performed right within Mark within that right with the neonos if we accept that if then we have to accept that it's a virgin because if we look at the similar rights across the magical tradition it's always a virgin child. It's a virgin

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Child in the PDM and the PGM. And then it becomes a virgin boy in all of the Christian texts that follow. And there are many of them and also in the Abra in the Islamic tradition and the Jewish tradition. All these black magic grimoirs doing the same thing. They're taking these young kids, these young virgin boys. They're sufficating them with tons of cannabis and, you know, other types of things like frankincense. And then they're having them look into a basin, right, to an either a flame lamp

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Or into water with oil to try and divine. >> Yeah. Uncorrupted vessel, right? And it's like >> it's so frustrating because there's just there's so much there. There's so much that you can find for such an expansive time throughout many texts of that talk about using that that uncorrupted vessel and even like really gruesome stuff like I I showed you in the witches symposium where they're like literally, you know, cutting them open and and doing divination through their endrails and stuff like that. That's just like,

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Oh, and you say there's no ritual, boys. Okay, let's let's uh just look at what texts say then. So, >> be all over the place and ritual boys, ritual girls, ritual everything. >> I showed you guys, remember in our witches symposium, I showed you in the PDM, which is the uh the Egyptian magical papyrie of London. We had the collection 14. They had a young boy naked wrapped in lemon who was sufficated with frankincense and divine

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Through looking at oil and water. Then we saw the same thing in the PGM with the spelt to Helios. You guys actually have that one here. You were showing it to me earlier sub. >> And then um we can also see though in modern grimoirs. I showed you guys in the discovery of witchcraft which is from the 17th century in England. Virgin boys in order to what? Subin the fairy queen, Sibilia, the Sibil, right? Weird

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Stuff going on there. And then I showed you that German uh grimmooire, the CLM manuscript that also they have they're they're trying to view the the uh the image in the thumbnail. They're trying to make the boy see spirits in his thumbnail, but again, they're sufficating him and he has to be an uncorrupted virgin boy. And they're wrapping him in white linen again. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. And again, we don't condone this stuff. >> We don't even admire it. >> We don't admire it at all.

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>> Super interesting because it tells you what the hell they're doing, >> right? We're just we're just pointing out like Jesus is operating within a magical tradition that remains consistent across time. So, you know, I don't even need to debate about what he's doing. I just look before and after

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[laughter]

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And around like this is what they're doing. >> So bottom line, Jesus and Dr. Hillman will say this, Jesus was stealing previous tradition. >> Yeah. >> And he was he wasn't even the first one making it a male, right? >> I mean you have some evidence with the Heracles. You have the Escleian, right? which Heracles and Sleptius I think were heroes in the same group together somehow both taught by Chiron the centaur right in in healing. So like

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Centaurs are like teachers. They're not like this myth mythical beast basically. And >> but you can read about this stuff mythographized, right? And so think of the texts that were missing. Think of hey they had to encode this stuff anyway. So the centaur was educating these guys in medicine and all the arts, right? And so then you get escapius and you get 300 to 400 healing centers. These are hospitals across the ancient Greco Roman world. And then they all get shut down all at once at 391 CE when

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They make pagan paganism illegal. So no more hospitals, guys. [laughter] >> So it's just so wild and it's so insane, you know. And a lot of people saw the the end of history coming and the you know the the the the pagan Romans and the Greeks were writing about it. Mhm. >> You know, people saw Christianity for what it was, but we now take that to be pmic and we ignore it. You know, >> it has helenic roots. Look at the syibles on the ceiling of the Michelangelo in the cyine chapel.

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>> There's syibles in there. These are oracles. The oracles basically I mean they they wrote it. The Christians wrote it. So the oracles did say it, right? But um they basically prophesize Jesus. And so here's if you want to create a new religion that will crush the old religion, don't come up with something new. Come up with something that builds on the previous truth because your thing is just as true as the previous thing if you build on it. >> And yours is more true because you say

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So, right? But you've got all this legitimacy stuff behind your thing so that people can't argue with you. And that's what they did. They had the symbols. Back it out. Back it up. Right. >> Yep. And you know they do that classical monism thing where they reduce everything to one. Your gods are nothing more than images of my god. Any of your magic that you had was a lie. So we're now going to turn your gods into saints or we're going to just incorporate them into ours. Yours will be the Virgin Mary

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Or it will be Jesus or it'll be the Holy Ghost. But you're not allowed to have your own. Anything that you had is actually ours. You know, >> Catholicism is famous for being syncric and bringing in all that stuff, too. >> Exactly. You know, we see this on full display, but this is also one of its it's it's it's that universalizing thing that empire tends to do, right? You got to have >> both ex you got to have this incredible positivity and love and hope to offer

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People, but it can't be anything real, you know? [laughter] And you [clears throat] got to hide like because what what Catholicism does is it steals people's what a lot of religion does is it steals people's true spirituality and it turns it decrepit. It empowers it within a system of control. Right? It takes the spiritual people and isolates them and redirects them and takes their magic away from them. You know, [snorts] >> well, and the ancient Greeks

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For much of their time or all of their time really tried to orient themselves to nature. >> Yeah. >> To what was >> Well, it is an animist philanist

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>> And it doesn't necessarily mean little soft bunnies and trees and hugging the trees all the time. >> No. No. >> No. It's they oriented themselves to what was apparent in nature. things like knowledge, justice, truth, liberty, you

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Know, all of these things. Even justice was a part of nature, right? Aeros is a part of nature. And so, like, let's let's give names to all of these parts of nature and like personify them so we can tell our kids about them and get everybody to learn about it. And so, like, that's the biggest discrepancy I see between Christianity and Hellenic religion. Christianity

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Is like this blame faith trust thing without any proof, right? And it's like, hey, well, why would you believe in a 100 gods if you can just believe in our one true God? It's like it's not even about belief because it's about nature, >> right? >> In nature, you don't have to believe. Nature you can look at, you can understand, rationalize. Nature is nature and nature is everything in the cosmos in the universe, right? So they're not making up [\\h__\\h] when they are worshiping nature. They're

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They like reality just the way it is. >> Yep. And this is the thing when they create an Adelon that is the god that is they've manifested beauty upon the earth. Right. And like like we've lost so much of our connection to the classics and we've kind of dismissed and undermined so much of the helenic philosophy. Like for example, like we're talking about life and generation. The god of life and generation is Dian Isis, right? Life and death united in a single force. But that's not how people in modernity understand Dianisis. He's the god of grapes and wine. And like the

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Wine is about the ecstasy of life and death. It's about that profound experience of being, right? Like this is he the the wine is just a part of it. He's really he's the god of experience of all drugs, of all life and death. >> A lot of a lot of this stuff >> beautifully said >> kind of buried or hidden. Right. >> Right. >> Where modern modern pagans, modern witches, modern

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Whatever doesn't they don't have all the information. No, it's been it's been hidden and and it's been obscured. You know, one that that that Dr. Ammon brings up all the time is Hecate, right? And what source classically is she ever seen as a crone? Where where did this come from? Right? But she's always in in the new age witchcraft scene seen as the elder mother. Now, I'm not dismissing the elder mother. That's a beautiful image. But that's not Hecate. It's nothing to do with Hec Hecati is the virgin with the two torches, you know, the queen of freaking Caucus. She's Ifaganiah. Like,

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We've got sources that tell us who she is, you know? >> Didn't Apollo Doris write the family tree? And she was like >> definitely older than Media, so maybe that's where they get it. >> It's it's, you know, it's it's hard to say. I think um I think a lot of it has to do with just wanting to take modern ideas of pagan revival philosophy and apply it cross-culturally. >> You know, they look at, you know, a lot of this comes from Wiccan conceptions of the moon goddess

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>> And then they go, well, you guys have a you have a three-faced moon goddess, too. So, obviously, it's going through the three phases of life. But the Greeks don't talk about three phases of life. The only I can only think of like a couple of old women characters in any of the Greek like they're the Greyowns. Those ones who share the single eye, you know, they're they're in the Heracles movie by Disney, [laughter] >> but like they're the only ones I can even think of. Like do you guys know any

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Old lady gods >> in in Greek? You know, I don't know. >> I don't know. every all the gods are depicted as young and youthful virgins teenagers always right >> so what seeing with that I don't know what you call it arch type borrowing or whatever you call that with the modern wiccan kind of stuff like did we also see that in the helenic days where they would you know take series as a representation of maybe media or I don't know [sighs] like it seemed like there was no

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Internet back Then, so like different towns had different ones and they, you know, different arch types kind of matched each other between different towns as well, right? >> Well, you know, [clears throat] so many of this is like I've talked about this with Maddie a lot, right? Like we see that the the great mother wears an infinite number of faces and an infinite number of names and her story is told in an infinite number of ways, right? Like the most primal example would be Deer and the Corey. But if you read the story

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Of media, it is the story of the Corey. You know, if you read the story of like you see these the same ideas repeated in they're different but they're the same, you know, >> over and over. Well, that's that's where nature always wins because >> you can erase all of this and then you can rederive it again. >> Right. That's a good point >> because you can just look at nature and you know what it is. Sorry. >> Right. It's a song of the birds. It's

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That which is understood and heard, you know. >> Yeah. >> Right. The these the the the myths are primordial, you know. They the they'll reappear in a in a different color, in a different shade, but with the same essence. >> So, I know Malina has a thought about this. >> I interrupted you. >> Oh, no. I I was just agreeing. a different mass as before. So after, you know, it all it never ceases to end.

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>> Yeah. >> But we're we're coming up guys here to about two hours. It is quite late for me. Do we have any final articles we want to talk get into or anything we want to get into as we start to wind down? >> I want to talk about just like the the site itself. um like what everything that's in there, you know, we have transcriptions of the podcast. We have uh some of the almond use. We I'm a project that I'm working on is the selections of the syibble which

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Obviously got pushed to the back burner for a while. Um, but I want to do all of those as a solid foundation so everyone can just look at everything and have all the links straight to the sources and it's just straight up. Um,

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And build from there. And I we've talked about making several projects stemming off of that, but we'll we'll get there eventually. And there's there are just other tools that are also in the Soma library to learn ancient Greek which if you want to go to that sub there's

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All of the resources look like everything from the intensive course I own study guides fish you know um different drills I do still have like some of those quizzes cuz that those are really helpful when I was trying to like >> learn dip You guys do because Sonia was just going through them and she really liked them. >> Nice. Those were really great. And I was pleasantly surprised to do them while I'm like in the morning when I'm groggy. I'm like, "Oh, 5:00 a.m. Let's work through how how these dip thongs

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Sound." And you know, there's a lot of tools here. And I think once you fully utilize it, cuz people are like, "Okay, maybe these are just transcriptions." I've I've heard people say, "I don't want just like word for word stuff." We we try to go way deeper to link everything and, you know, include some of those really important nuggets of wisdom as well and like,

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You know, connecting everybody that's involved in their work and um tracing it back to Yeah. like see different tidbits in different episodes and stuff like that. So, um, like the search function is my favorite tool and I use it like every day. It's like you can scan a page for a word. You can scan the whole library for a word and you can see every single thing that every time it was used of what we have embedded into the site, which is awesome because it's like, oh,

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How many times have you said this? which I do that also just using a search function in in YouTube as well. But it's nice to see it laid out especially because I'm a very visual a um memory person,

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>> You know. It's it's cool. I think that people will be able to understand these concepts easier seeing it all laid out and um you know bringing that the satanic initiation right into a consolidated like

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Readable format where you can listen while you are reading it. So you're not just you're not missing some of the stuff that Almond is saying that are that it would take like me like four times listening to an episode to catch. You know, it's just been a very helpful tool that that we are building for this collective, for the world, for you know, people that are really interested in studying and also to like show, hey, you know,

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This guy, he's not a cook. He's the stuff that he's saying is wild. His dramatics are his art. It's like, but everything he's saying, we're keeping him accountable. And that's like my favorite part about the library is like, okay, we want to know if it's true for ourselves. This is our devotion to figuring out if it's true for ourselves. And we are devoted to bringing that that link, you know, literally a link embedded in it to see and read and be exposed to the Greek. And then it's like

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When you're exposed to it, your your entire framework of your brain changes. your entire viewpoint. Like I I don't know. There's there are so many different rabbit holes, not just like with the controversial stuff because that's that's something, you know, but but there's just so much, you know, >> there's there's just so much.

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[laughter]

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>> Yeah. If you're if you're at all interested in classics, Helenism or mythology in general, philosophy in general, there's just so much wild ideas here. Right. Right. Ammon talks about everything and you guys have connected so much and you make it so I just love just just going through and scrolling and just like, okay, yeah, yeah, what's this? And then you just find yourself clicking hyperlinks and just getting lost. >> Yeah. And it's a great it's awesome for like okay you start your own rabbit hole

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Let's see how we can add on to it and >> but it's also perfect because many people come from many backgrounds with many questions and if you don't know something you don't have to worry about trying to spend hours looking for it if you can just plug in a word and a and a article comes up where it's it's an episode and you can send it to them you You know, that's been like the greatest thing that we've been able to do. Like, hey, what is what do texts say about

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This? Here, why don't you read this? Like somebody, this lady came to me. She's like one of the these rose priestesses, right? And she's like, I want to I am a wine maker and I'm deeply connected to Dianis. Like, please can you help me find like the the most ancient roots of wine and tell me more about wine? And I'm like, oh, if you want to how deep you do you want to go with wine? like, "Do you want me to send you Philly Luminous or do you want me to send like pull up a the Odyssey where

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Daughter of Zeus uh drugs the the cup, you know? Um, and it's I I don't know. There's just so many people that are curious and don't know where to start. And this this site is an awesome tool. And as we get more of y'all nerds doing the AI and doing, you know, with Kate doing his his wizard [snorts] time

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Travel magic, we can create more with visuals. we can create more um data that is consolidated that connects some of these dots that would take us ages to do by hand and it's just awesome. I I I love the community that we've built through just doing this because it was like all right we we've been watching Lady Babylon for long time. Like when I joined there was just a bunch of drama and again like Renee talked about how I was like I'm out of the loop of some of the stuff that's going on. I'm just I've

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Just been watching and trying to like take notes or whatever and um and to see like friendships friendships form through just connecting and asking these questions and also like the muse work to inspire different people's heart. That is a huge alabaster. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Alabaster. And now you can go to a [\\h__\\h] sorry museum and be like, "Oh, I know what that is and I know how it's used and I know what it like it meant. It's not just some random rock uh stick. It's not just holding the wrapped on is now. It's like you know what the the

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Wand is for now as an applicator." And it's like you're >> I just I just love it so much. I love the library and I'm a I'm a big fan of being a part of it. It's like a really big honor to work and there's so much that I I'm excited to do and write for it and and stuff. So, yeah. >> Yeah. Well said, Malina. Um, and you highlight an important part. It's like we are so lucky to have really sharp people around us who

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Really make that um inquiry of history, right? >> We really have smart people around us, aware people. >> So smart. >> Yeah. Ammon has managed to attract this incredible community of creatives and intellectuals that is just I've never seen anything like it and I'm just amazed to be a part you know >> right this is the tip of the iceberg and beneath this there's kind of like a nerdy study group >> of that I consider myself very lucky >> to have access to right >> right

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>> Because it can transform your whole world how you see the world how you behave how you communicate, you know, it's it's magical to see um how it's affected other people, not just myself, you know, um makes me emotional, makes me want to cry. But really it it is a great tool and um yeah I think everyone should be using it for in their dayto-day if they have questions and you know like you know I don't have I don't have all the energy to answer everybody's questions here just look in the library like let me equip you so you

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Can start searching when you have the time right so >> absolutely >> yeah and we're not we're not claiming anything's perfect here either. >> Yeah. Everything's under construction, right? >> This is all there's more to add. >> This is one thing I wanted to ask you guys. If people from our communities want to get in touch with you in order to help contribute in some way, how could they get in touch with the Soma Library? >> Yeah. So, we have a channel in the Lady Babylon Discord that Chewy and Dr.

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Hillman run. Um, so yeah, come into that channel. You can ask a question or you can um point out some error, right? I'm sure there's errors, right? Because this this is our journey. This is our notes. And like I'm sure I've gotten many things wrong, right? So I mean this is a living document. It's a wiki. It's just like Wikipedia. Remember back when Wikipedia was kind of basic and there's some problems and >> now is [laughter] like let's work on this for some years and let's get this really good. Right. So,

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>> Right. >> Yeah, >> we've all been fighting with poor Almond's Wikipedia page. Don't go there. Go [laughter] to go to go to uh their wiki for Almond here. They got a much more accurate biography. >> That's funny. Yeah. >> I finally got his Google image changed because it was just a picture. If you Google Almond Hillman, it was just a picture of Ducktail Dan. [laughter] And I was like, "Oh man, that sucks." Like, here, let me uh fix that. So, >> you mean the guy who just shames weirdos

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Online and says they're not correct Christians? >> I don't care. That guy is so terrible. >> Yeah, I can't handle that. >> Who is that guy? [laughter] >> Anyway, [clears throat] >> but this has been so fun, guys. What about you? Um, uh, Subatomic, anything you want to end with? >> Uh, no. There's so much more that we could go into, but this is this has been great. This has been informative for me as well. Like you know the reason I do this is to learn. So obviously I don't

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Know everything right. Well >> we'll have to come back and do a part two and get Bory again maybe Ion and we can look through some more articles answer some questions and have some fun because this was great. >> Appreciate it. >> Thank you so much. >> Great conversation. >> So everyone make sure you uh check out the description below and you can find the link. It's hypatiaostcoy.com

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And then you go to LadyBlon to get to the Lady Babylon wiki, you know, uh, right there. Soma library nastcoy. Um, so make sure you check out the link and if you, like they were saying, if you go to the Lady Babylon Discord, you can find them [clears throat] under the Soma Library tab. If you wish to contribute, just tag either Subatomic or Melena or just leave them a question or a comment. They really appreciate you and all of your support. anything you want to offer

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Or say, I'm sure they want to hear from you. >> Absolutely. >> Right. So, check out the website. Also, make sure you go and you of course subscribe to Lady Babylon to go get it from the source themselves to support Ammon and Chewy. And make sure you go subscribe to Melena if you're not already on her channel. What's your channel called again? I know it's in the description, but >> it's um Malina now. So, >> okay. Because you keep changing it. It was Priestess of >> Alabaster. It was Priestess of Hagate,

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Priestess of Alabaster. And I was like, you know, I'm just changing it, you know. >> I like Cathonia. It's great. Why not? >> Beautiful. So, go subscribe to to Melena. Make sure you come and follow uh the Nostcoy um Hypatia.com for the Soma Library and check them all out on the LB Discord. So, thank you everyone. Peace and love. Um, you want to guys say goodbye to the audience? >> See you. Love you. >> Good night. >> Take care everyone. Next time. Peace.

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[music]

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>> Heat

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[music]

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Up here. Yeah.

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[music]

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Heat.